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Firemen Need to Get A Life!

by Duck Twacy Tuesday, Aug. 10, 2004 at 4:31 PM

Firemen Need to Get ...
img_0950.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

How many people have seen firemen setting up (illegal) roadblocks and soliciting "donations" since 9-11? Where do you think that money goes to?

Did you know a fire department in NY is under investigation by the FBI?

Do you know that many fire departments often have sheepdipped fomer spooks in their ranks?

Did you know right now there is a "war" going on in LA county between some fire departments and cops and sheriffs over funding?

Did you know that fire departments have more information on you than most cops do?

Do you honestly think all these clowns driving around with these firemen's decals on their cars are REALLY FIREMEN? Of course they aren't.....
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Puppetmasters

by Duck Twacy Tuesday, Aug. 10, 2004 at 4:40 PM

Ollie North's Enterprise is alive and well.

Mind control lives baby, yeah!

Just ask Mad Maxim.
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More Staged Accidents

by DavidVGoliath Tuesday, Aug. 10, 2004 at 10:14 PM
coljhsmith@hotmail.com

One of the very bizarre things this group does to me is stage to accidents, usually ahead of my route. This is done in order to impede my journey, and also to bring fire and police response. This has been done to me dozens of times, with the destruction of an unbelievable amount of vehicles, and with all the risk and incovenience that represents for the community at large. They also stage arrests, and block traffic this way, in the direction I am heading. They've done this to me, when picking up packages at CBS studios at 7800 Beverly Blvd., LA 90036, and have simultaneously blocked all exits, except the main gate on Beverly with road work, so that I'll have to go around. Seems like a lot of work for a questionable payoff, but; this is a covert operation, that is intended to leave no evidence. I don't entirely undersatnd the logic of it, but; there probably is some.

When leaving TRIMAR, after donating plasma, in Reseda, on Friday 8/6/04, 10:45am, there was an accident at the corner of Tampa & Reseda, the moment I left the building. I can't prove that this was staged, but; the precise timing of it suggests that it was. Timing that precise would also require the use of one or more spotters, either someone in the parking lot, another doner at Trimar, or a member of the Trimar staff itself. I believe the lic's of the vehicles involved were: 3PGB352 & 4GSC035, (if these prove to be the wrong plates, my complete list for the day of suspect vehicles is below), also the moment I turned onto Ventura Blvd, from tampa, I was immediately passed by two LAFD units, with sirens and strobe lights running, these were units: "293" plus a "LADDER TRUCK." Also, the moment I entered the highway, I was immediately met with LACO unit: 9929479 at the intersection of the freeway onramp and the US 101 SB. Again, I can't prove these were anything other that coincidences, but; if they are, they are certainly unnaturally plentiful, and after what I've been through I think I understand the difference.

3LAS704, 3SFK988, 3VCW115, 5HAX885, 4SIW758, 4ABW819, *1045763 6:30PM, 7H06840, 613 ONLY, 4XPF220, 4DIZ976, 4MI637, ECI II, 5CHG467, RXM5086, 5HCI650, TH USUAL, 4NUZ247

****Also, be on the lookout for vehicles with one bright and one dim headlight. You will see these on passenger vehicles, MTA & School busses, taxicabs, LADWP, Parking Enforcement, Trash Trucks, Parks & Recreations vehicles, SBC & Comcast vans, and a multitude of other vehicles. This is a variation of the one-headlight trick, only this appears to be street legal. When you see this, you can be SURE, that these folks are mobbed up!!!

Also, does anyone besides myself remember the following? For at least four years prior to the last year and a half, there were no beat-up vehicles on California streets and highways. There was a reason for this. California vehicle emmsions standards were so strict that a violating vehicle would often need and engine or emissions system replacement to remain on the road. This along with vehicle retirement programs, often made it economically unfeasable to keep an older car on the road.

So has anyone noticed all the BADDDDLLLYYY beat-up vehicles on California streets and highways now??? Doesn't it seem odd??? That's because IT IS!!! All older beatup vehicles are suspect. THEY DON'T BELONG HERE!!! Period!

David
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Did FBI Spy on Peterson Home?

by Ann R. Kist Wednesday, Aug. 11, 2004 at 1:37 AM

The comment/photo on the out of state license plates I thought was very interesting and here is a copy of a Modesto Bee article that brings up that point in an FBI surveillance on the Peterson residence - if this is as "good" as the FBI gets no wonder we are losing the war on terror and turning into a domestic police state....I mean, if they can do this to us, why can't they find Osama bin Laden? Because they already know where he is, and will trot him out at the appropriate time to give Bush the election....

The other site you mention by the way is very interesting and I have seen those decals on cars on the freeways too....

Always did wonder how there could be so many "firemen" around.....most of them ARENT....and you are right (posts on other indymedia page) about them looking like gangbangers.....

Interesting stuff - activists need to take note....

__________

Modbee.com
Did FBI film Peterson home?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By JOHN COTÉ
BEE STAFF WRITER

An FBI surveillance camera used to monitor Scott Peterson's Modesto home may have been attached to a utility poll directly across the street in January, neighbors said Friday.

Peterson's defense is seeking copies of the surveillance logs and videos, saying they could contain evidence that exonerates the 31-year-old fertilizer salesman of double-murder charges.

Three small, boxlike devices -- including one "pointed" at Peterson's home -- appeared on the pole in January after work was performed by a man who identified himself as a Pacific Gas & Electric Co. subcontractor, one neighbor said.

PG&E provides natural gas in Modesto, not electricity.

"I told him PG&E is underground," the neighbor said. The man dismissed the comment and continued working.

Some of the equipment that the neighbors saw attached to the pole may have been installed so media companies could have phone service while camped in front of Scott and Laci Peterson's Covena Avenue home, according to a spokeswoman for telecommunications company SBC.

But the question of surveillance tapes, if they exist, could play a role in the case, legal observers said.

Those tapes are "enormously significant," defense attorney Mark Geragos said Thursday during Peterson's preliminary hearing in Stanislaus County Superior Court. Geragos indicated that the tapes could shed light on a burglary across the street from the Peterson home that police said took place Dec. 26.

Geragos suggested that the burglary could have happened Dec. 24, the day that Laci Peterson was reported missing.

"That would tend to undercut some of the clearance, if you will, of the burglars" in connection with Peterson's death, Geragos said.

If a camera were placed on the utility pole in January, it would not have captured any details of that burglary. It could contain information about a burglary at the Peterson home on Jan. 18, a day after The Bee reported that police had informed Laci Peterson's family that Scott Peterson had been having an affair with a Fresno woman.

Wedding dress burglary

Sources close to the case said Kimberly Ann McGregor, a neighbor who had been active in searches for Laci Peterson, went into the couple's home early on Jan. 18 and left with several objects, including Peterson's wedding dress.

No charges have been filed in that incident, and police origin-ally said it was not connected to Laci Peterson's disappearance. Police have since refused to release information on the break-in, saying it may be part of the case against Peterson. Mc- Gregor declined to comment previously.

Defense attorneys could cite the break-in as yet one more piece of the puzzle in Peterson's disappearance, countering the charges against her husband. He is accused of killing his 27-year-old wife and their unborn son, Conner. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty.

The surveillance camera came to light when Geragos suggested in court that he would seek to have the charges against his client dismissed if the information is not turned over to the defense.

An internal FBI memo contained in about 27,000 pages of documents already provided to the defense referred to a closed-circuit television camera placed "across the street," Geragos said. The memo did not say when the camera was installed or how long it was in operation.

Senior Deputy District Attorney Rick Distaso said prosecutors did not have such surveillance videos, but would provide them to the defense if they are received from the FBI.

Fellow prosecutor Dave Harris said the defense has yet to show how such videos might exonerate Peterson.

It is "not that uncommon" for FBI agents to use surveillance cameras, said Rory Little, a professor at Hastings College of the Law in San Francisco and a former federal prosecutor.

"It's actually an inexpensive way to do the surveillance you could do with two FBI agents sitting across the street in a car eating doughnuts," he said. "They can put it on a telephone pole, and it looks like part of the cable system."

Often the camera feeds are not monitored live, but the images are recorded and collected daily for review, he said.

FBI officials did not return calls Friday seeking comment.

The neighbors, who asked not be identified, said they thought something was odd about the man working on the utility pole from a cherry picker rig rising from the rear of his white truck, similar to a pickup.

The vehicle had license plates from Alabama, Georgia or another Southern state, the neighbors said. When they asked the man what he was doing, he said he was a subcontractor for PG&E.

Any subcontractors that the utility hires are for natural gas work, and they are local companies, PG&E spokesman Mark Hendrickson said.

"There is not a plausible reason we would have a gas serviceman having anything to do with transmission lines, or a subcontractor for that matter," Hendrickson said.

One neighbor said that after the man finished his work, neighbors noticed a small box apparently attached to a cross bar on the pole, a second device roughly 10 feet off the ground and another attached at the base. It was unclear whether the man installed those devices on the pole.

Box could be for media use

The middle box was the only one of the items that remained Friday. It was labeled "SBC-Pacific Bell Telephone Network Interface."

A spur of severed tan wire protruded. That wire had been connected to the box formerly at the base of the pole, a neighbor said.

An SBC technician Friday removed the network interface, which typically is used for additional phone connections, company spokeswoman Heather Alexander said.

She suggested that the device, which was not connected, may have been installed for media companies.

SBC service records for January were not immediately available, but Alexander said any SBC technician would be in uniform and in a logo vehicle.

"We rarely use contractors," she said. "For the most part, the contractors we use are in-state."

Bee staff writer John Coté can be reached at 578-2394 or jcote@modbee.com.



Posted on 11/08/03 05:55:09
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/7708454p-8611570c.html
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"THINGS ARE MOVING ALL AROUND US..."

by Duck Twacy Wednesday, Aug. 11, 2004 at 1:53 AM

George Hodell could "see it" too:

"The biggest obstacles were the total lack of cooperation and candor for the US government. All but one of Freedom of Information Act requests were denied, often for the most absurd reasons, ie, the Drug Enforcement Agency and the FBI didn’t want to invade the privacy of these international drug lords. Not a single government official with personal knowledge these activities would agree to answer to questions. We had public records disappear from court files. We had a witness disappear from a Nicaraguan prison. I was told that I would endanger the lives of DEA agents if we disclosed certain matters....

"I never felt threatened personally, but as my Nicaraguan colleague, George Hodell, noted at one point, “Things are moving all around us.” "

Gary Webb, quoted in interview about DARK ALLIANCE

(THE CIA, THE CONTRAS, AND CRACK COCAINE EPIDEMIC)
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Catch of the Day

by Duck Twacy Wednesday, Aug. 11, 2004 at 4:45 PM

Catch of the day:

5FTA496 - Scarface mind controled doper droid, trying to stake us out (extremely poor tradecraft)
7A78784 – Firemens’ helmets
2YAG387 – Yet another wannabe fireman
3XXF080 – the ol’ broken taillight trick
4VFW453 – Big Bear decal
J CAPT – CSFA Firemen’s decals on a white Pickup with AUGUST 03 tags – naughty, naughty, Captain, you call that "INTEGRITY'? We don't...
6B63820 – another 1 taillight job

They might be resorting to using John Kerry bumper stickers, which would be the ultimate joke....

Speaking of Jokes, David and Goliath, we passed your pals at Renzenberger on the 405 again tonight, antennas flapping in the breeze! Wow! Such finesse.

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Cop Stalkers and Assorted Goons

by Duck Twacy Thursday, Aug. 12, 2004 at 4:43 PM

Cop Stalkers and Ass...
img_0989.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

Plates: 483PKU Nevada - mob puppet
5HEM012 Raiders Decal
LOUSJEP, red Jeep Cherokee with the usual assortment of Harvest Festival decals, praying Calvins, and a sleazy looking Mexican chick barking into her cell phone ala two way radio, caught hovering around a marked police unit we were backing up, in a 405 freeway cell with other assorted types, with Renzenberger at the lead.

HUNNERS
4YQH933 - white mini van with a rough looking Asian chick trying to box in the police unit we were backing up (i.e., taking note of the perps tailing the cop and photographing and/or cutting off as deemed necessary....).
5FSD570
3KNH0484PUF459 - HB decal and Hawaiian flower decal
3XOA520
2PBU882

This week it's been an interesting assortment of very damaged cars with bent up fenders, caved in rears, etc., "in the mix"....in addition to the one light on, one light off routine....

Heavy on Asian and Mexican perps.
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Cop Stalkers and Assorted Goons, Cont.

by Duck Twacy Thursday, Aug. 12, 2004 at 4:45 PM

Cop Stalkers and Ass...
img_0988.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

More of today's haul. The bent up fender trick along with air fresheners and decals, on the 405, behind the Renzenberger van with the BEEEEEEG nasty antennea!
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Cop Stalkers and Assorted Goons, Cont.

by Duck Twacy Thursday, Aug. 12, 2004 at 4:52 PM

Cop Stalkers and Ass...
img_0990.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

One more, "for the road".

Like we have said before, bad enough these perps pick on civilians, but one thing our Ace Duck-tek-a-tive, Duck Twacy will NEVER tolerate is these perps stalking law enforcement. NOPE!

SO HE PINS IT ON YA, SEE? PINS IT ON YA!

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Please seek help

by Please seek help Friday, Aug. 13, 2004 at 12:32 AM

No jokes here. Your "reports" read like you're a paranoid schizophrenic. Please seek help.
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other cultz

by russell Friday, Aug. 13, 2004 at 1:22 PM

whenever i see a jesus fish or a "jesus is god read the bible" bumper sticker, i know the driver is a christian cultist (and deluded).
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PERP OF THE WEEK: LA MIGRA BASHING IN SAN PEDRO

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 13, 2004 at 5:57 PM

PERP OF THE WEEK: LA...
img_0995.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

Get a load of this. Hopefully our friends at CBP will pick this up and have some fun with it.

We sent the pic to a few anti-illegal immigration sources (newspapers and radio shows) and hope they will be circulating it all over the web as we will be.

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Even MORE pics and plates...

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 13, 2004 at 6:07 PM

Even MORE pics and p...
img_0996.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

As quick as they come up with the latest "new" decal, we find 'em....and Duck Twacy PINS IT ON 'EM....

The decal on this window showed up earlier in the evening twice on the 405. Until today, we'd never seen them. Now, they're suddenly everywhere.

AMAZING, AIN'T IT?!?!!

Running ops DOES take some brains ya know, something the drugged up, mobbed up, mind controlled, wannabe spook perps running these gigs, obviously lack. I mean, FINESSE MAY BE AN "F" WORD but it ain't a bad thing to cultivate.

Eh, Bat Fans?

Well, when you have the likes of NeoCons like John K. Singlaub and Ollie North and Porter Goss behind these things, you learn to stop expecting professionals, and just settle for mobbed up trash.

It don't get any lower than those dregs, do it....
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But Wait...THERE'S MORE!

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 13, 2004 at 6:10 PM

But Wait...THERE'S M...
img_0994.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

Yeah, yeah, I know. You're incredulous. Well suck it up PILGRIMS....

Sit back and ENJOY THE RIDE.

We do, EACH AND EVERY DAY!

Gotta love this shit, and gotta flow with it, or it'll eatcha alive. Keeping mind and soul centered and happy: that is the trick, and it drives the Scientologists nuts.


And some Longshoremen, too. Or so we've heard.

;~)
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RD 22 - Altered License Plate?

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 13, 2004 at 6:37 PM

RD 22 - Altered Lice...
img_0992.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

Give a close look at this clown's plate. Almost looks like it was altered or something, or pounded out, or sanded out. Trying to hide something, is he?

I had to get right up on him to even see the 22.

Some kinda jerk this dude. Must be an anti-government militia nutcase or something, the way he tried to shove us up against a retaining wall.

Where do these "people" come from, anyhow.

Area 51?

Oh, let's NOT even go there.....!

;~ )
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Our Hero

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 13, 2004 at 6:48 PM

Our Hero...
porcheicon1_384x280.jpg, image/jpeg, 384x280

As Duck Twacy...drives off into the sunset, its the end of another wonderful, long and hard day, hunting down evil perps, fiendish cop and law enforcement stalkers, mobbed up goomba schmucks, Wackenhut goons, Yakuza backed thugs, mexican cholo trash illegals, pimping Scientology whores, wacked out drug dealers and your usual assortment of coked-up, slumlording, white collar trash.

Sigh.....

Tough job....

But someone's gotta do it.
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They that throw rocks, usually reside in glass houses.

by Ann Saturday, Aug. 14, 2004 at 8:32 AM

You guys, ignore this "please seek help" clown who's probably some CIA smut nosepicker on someone's payroll trying to spook you out of what your doing, don't stop because there is a lot of stuff here that you have that I've seen and my friends are all checking this page out now, and they say the same thing, they're beginning to watch for these decals and patterns, and whos' driving and stuff, and they are saying WHOA, we see it too!

It's NOT crock. There is something going on down here alright and it sure looks like you guys (David vs Goliath and Duck Twacy) have nailed it on the head.

Bet these guys ARE pissed...

I'm going to start taking some pics too and load them up here.

Maybe we can drive them out of here!?
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On the level

by DavidVGoliath Saturday, Aug. 14, 2004 at 8:44 AM
coljhsmith@hotmail.com

Dear Please Seek Help:

Already done that, and again, I sincerely and respectfully sugest that you seek the help of a qualified optometrist. There is photographic evidence here. The kind that can be used as-is or enhanced. If you really can see, which I believe is probably the case, look at the photos on this site and the previous one, but; I suspect this is probably your team anyway huh...

And my question about munchies was related to whether or not you were waiting up, just to see my post for the day, but; if you do smoke dope as well, please seek help. I hear there are several reputable detox centers in town.

David
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Trust me they are...

by DavidVGoliath Saturday, Aug. 14, 2004 at 8:55 AM
coljhsmith@hotmail.com

Dear Ann:

Thank you for your kind and generous support. This kind of thing has been going on for some time in America, and needs to be dealt with as soon as possible. We can never really live in a civil society until it is. The PD and other government agencies neeed to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. The problem is there is too much money involved in being on the take. Those of us who attempt to earn our livings honestly know how hard it is to make ends meet without taking shortcuts. In a way, I don't blame the bastards for trying to use their badges to earn six figure incomes, but; this is something society cannot tolerate.

FYI, there was a commission formed in 1930's in the aftermath of prohibition, to study and deal with poilce corruption. It was found aposteriori, that police corruption in the 1930's was extremely rampant, and there is a standing commitee in congress today that was formed on the basis of these findings. I forget the names of the original commission and the contemporary congressional commitee, but; I will look these up and post them eventually.

David
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Dear Please seek help redux

by DavidVGoliath Saturday, Aug. 14, 2004 at 9:03 AM
coljhsmith@hotmail.com

This is not entirely spying. This is primarily a harrassment operation. There is nothing criminal to prosecute. Do you know anything about these, or why LE, FD and other civic agencies would be involved in such operations?

David
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Secret car drivers

by Please seek help Saturday, Aug. 14, 2004 at 11:35 AM

You guys, ignore this "please seek help" clown who's probably some CIA smut nosepicker on someone's payroll trying to spook you out of what your doing,

>>> Wishful thinking, but don't bet on it. I don't give a hoot what these fellows are doing, wasting digital camera batteries and proving nothing.

don't stop because there is a lot of stuff here that you have that I've seen and my friends are all checking this page out now, and they say the same thing, they're beginning to watch for these decals and patterns, and whos' driving and stuff, and they are saying WHOA, we see it too!

>>>> Well, if you'tre the only ones who can see it, just like only drunks can see bugs crawling on them or "psychics" can see the future, that does no one any good.

It's NOT crock. There is something going on down here alright and it sure looks like you guys (David vs Goliath and Duck Twacy) have nailed it on the head.

>>>>> Too bad only THEY can see it. If you're so sure you know Something, take it to the media, who're dying for any scraps they can find to beat Bush this year (but they won't).

And learn how to resize the pics...they slow up the page.


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Resizing

by DavidVGoliath Sunday, Aug. 15, 2004 at 7:35 PM
coljhsmith@hotmail.com

Resizing the pics is a good idea, thank you. We're doin the best we can here with imperfect tech. Go to the media??? That's what I thought I was doing... Well live and learn...

Got a new digital camera. Not much of one, but; since I get so much attention from the Perps, it shouldn't be hard to get some interesting shots. "Show us your smoke," why don't ya?! I'll bet these pricks can't wait to get immortalized on this site. Glad to be of service!

Oh, and here's some BROKEN WINDOWS POLICING, I'd like to see: I think Bratton and Baca, and Mr Lockyer included, ought to bust ALL the freaks running around without proper plates and or tabs (Even if they issued them, haha). Impound the damn vehicles, and keep impounding them... That will get the Perps off the road where they're doing the most harm. Let them resort to stalking people on foot only. At least this is not likely to produce deadly outcomes, as almost happened to me on a number of occaissions; the most recent of which was less than a month ago...

Here's some other ideas I'd like to see implemented, but; might seem a little extreme to some people. But, I can tell you this much, these ideas are not only legal, but peaceful as well. Activism, like LE under ideal circumstances does not have to be brutal, just smarter... Ever hear the old aphorism, work smarter not harder? It applies here as well... Well here goes:

Situation: We currently live in a society where the PD can wiretap anyone's phones or email for what is in essence an indefinite period, and can also walk into our homes to perform a covert search, with notice being given only much later.

Q: How many of you think that any notice will ever be given under such rules?

A: If you guessed NEVER, your on the right track.

Such rules, also pave the way for investigations to be used for harrassment purposes, as in my case, with no legitimate investigative purpose ever intended. That's why we have double jeopardy laws folks... The founding fathers weren't such a bunch of old fuddy-duddies after all. They were experienced in civic life, and their lessons should not be forgeten or dismissed so quickly as being obsolete. Have any of you read the Declaration of Independence? It was a prohetic document and still is... Pay special attention to the "Intolerable Acts..."

Would any of you really like to break the back of the Patriot Act, and restore this country to a rule of law, where warrants must be issued and good cause shown? Heres, how to do it:

Don't pay your telecommunications bills... It's that simple. It would have to be orgaized of course, but; nothing could be more effective. Let's say that a large group of organized Americans simply refused to pay their phone bills, or simply disconnected service altogether, in protest. The telecommunications companies would be in crisis. The Patriot Act would simply not be enforceable, not at all... How long do you think it would take for the administration to CORRECT, the damnable thing. If you're thinking OVERNIGHT, your also on the right track,... and not a damn shot fired.

Napoleon Bonaparte, was once quoted as saying that "Four hostile newspapers are to be more feared than a thousand bayonets." Now that man was onto something, do ya think???

Now let me clear something up. The Patriot Act as written, does not allow the kind of pernicious domestic spying, and certainly not the vigilantism, that's taking place currently, but; LE organizations, which for the most part always overstep their restrictions, have taken it as a green light to engage in ALL KINDS of excesses, the kind that would make King George proud. In order to ensure theat LE is kept honest, they must be given something short of the tools they need to do the job, because they will always make up the difference, in less than constitutional ways. I forget which founding father said this, but; I believe it is still an important idea: "Government is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." Nothing could be more true, especially under the current political climate.

Some good pics on the way, and some video should be available, in about four weeks. I'll try to get some faces too, although since not all of the Perps are sworn LE, and many are not, licences plates should be satisfactory in most cases. Even if untraceable plates are discovered, well that tells us something as well doesn't it. And untraceable plates are only untraceable externally. I'm willing to bet that the PD is required to keep interal records in case of internal corruption, so; writing the plates down is NOT an exercise in futility! It's useful info.

David

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New Photos

by DavidVGoliath Monday, Aug. 16, 2004 at 2:40 PM
coljhsmith@hotmail.com

New Photos...
tailwheadlights.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Here's a tail I caught in my rear view, headlights and all.
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More New Photos

by DavidVGoliath Monday, Aug. 16, 2004 at 2:45 PM

More New Photos...
perptaxishowsmoke.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Perp Taxi, show us your smoke, huh....
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More New Photos

by DavidVGoliath Monday, Aug. 16, 2004 at 2:48 PM

More New Photos...
bbfd.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Burbank Fire Department Paramedics rushing to greet me, on way to breakfast appx 11am.
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WOW, Good Stuff Here, Gang Related

by So Cal Observer Tuesday, Aug. 17, 2004 at 4:19 PM

I found the other website (indymedia page link http://newswire.org/en/newswire/2004/05/803105.shtml) first and said WOW....

A lot of this is Mexican gang related in the LA area.

I've seen this stuff for years and you guys are the first ones to actually document it and post it.

Keep up the good work.

Oh, and please seek help: you need to follow your own fucked up advice

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LA Sheriffs Show Gang Sign

by DavidVGoliath Tuesday, Aug. 17, 2004 at 11:02 PM

LA Sheriffs Show Gan...
show_us_more_smoke_deputies.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

This was the second of at least four LE units, with Perp convoy in tow, to cross my path at right-angles today. When I tried get close enough to photograph the license plate of the Sheriff's unit, I was cut off by two vehicles in the left lane, the after I pulled around the obsructing vehicles, a white van pulled up close to the Sheriff's unit's rear bumper tp prevent me form getting the picture. However; I persisted and got the shot anyway.

Ohhh... Sing a song of six pence. A pocket full of rye. Three Sheriff's Department S____-___S baked in a pie. When IAD was telephoned the cops began to sing...

More to follow, David

See original post "Victim of State Sponsored Domestic Terrorism" at:

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/newswire/2004/05/803105.shtml
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Way More Photos

by DavidVGoliath Tuesday, Aug. 17, 2004 at 11:13 PM

Way More Photos...
perptaxishowsmoke.jpg1dfwbu.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Starting from the LA Sheriffs photo, I'm going to show appx 8 photos together that will make more sense as a series. I believe three will be repeats.
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Way More Photos Cont

by DavidVGoliath Tuesday, Aug. 17, 2004 at 11:29 PM

Way More Photos Cont...
showsmokeperp.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Perp Peon Showing Gang Sign. BTW, this gang sign is referred to as "Show Us Your Smoke," as usually a lit cigarette is help, lit end down, when displaying this sign.
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Way More Photos

by DavidVGoliath Tuesday, Aug. 17, 2004 at 11:37 PM

Way More Photos...
rode_ahead_of_me_to_and_from__paramount_mail_room.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Drove ahaead of me to and from delivery at Paramount mailroom
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Way More Photos Cont

by DavidVGoliath Tuesday, Aug. 17, 2004 at 11:53 PM

Way More Photos Cont...
tailwheadlights.jpggql0lc.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Tail With Headlights.
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More Photos

by DavidVGoliath Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 12:16 AM

More Photos...
inthebox.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

In The Box
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More Photos

by DavidVGoliath Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 12:25 AM

More Photos...
bbfd.jpgm26pr1.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Burbank Fire Department paramedics rushing to greet, me with strobe lights flashing and sirens howling, at Olive and Verdugo, while on the way to breakfast Sunday 8/15/04 11:00am.
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More Photos

by DavidVGoliath Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 12:30 AM
coljhsmith@hotmail.com

More Photos...
firestation35.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

LAFD Firestation 35. They always send a paramedic vehicle out at the exact monent I pass. I used to drive NB on Virgil for years and wonder why there was always a firetruck passing me in the opposite direction. I guess I figured it out...
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Congrats on Joining the Digital Age

by Duck Twacy Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 2:00 AM

D & G: You're having way too much fun doing this, reminds us of someone we know (ha).

However I have to say that I don't think of "the bad guys" when I have LE around my car, I usually think the opposite. My experiences have been different than yours too, I guess. I don't see them as trouble when they show up (there have been exceptions of course) but as "back up" to observe the other crap hanging around at that moment - usually mind controlled perp-types, druggie goons, bangers, thugs, etc., driving the requisite decal-ed cars. I note in my situation, when they see the cops/marked units/uc feds, the perps split, which again, is why I do not, and will not, see every cop or sheriff or fed in a "bad" light. I think some of the ones you see, are the same deal: back up, not the threat, but that's my 2 cents worth, for what it's worth.

I'll upload some new plates later. Apparently there was some kind of "firemen's muster" in Central Cal this weekend, which may have something to do with the abnormally large number of firemen's helmet decals sighted Friday PM on the freeways headed out of LA. Those guys you could tell were "legit" - unlike the ones you see, usually drivers who are young chicks or Mexican bangers, with the CSFA decals.
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Anybody notice that sheepdip and Meyer London are absent from this thread?

by Max Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 5:32 AM

Where are those self-ordained purveyors of truth? Why aren't they here calling this guy a rightwing loony?

See:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/115742.php


Well?

Anyone?

Anyone??

Bueller???
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Sheepdog and I absent from thread

by Meyer London Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 7:51 AM

I think that is to our credit.
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New Decals, New Sitings

by Duck Twacy Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 4:32 PM

New Decals, New Siti...
img_1016.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

They have begun using football team helmet decals, "tinkerbell" decals, and Dodgers baseball decals.

After tonight, we're going to begin another new link so the page will be new, and upload faster.

D & G: howabout focusing your camera talents on more DECAL sitings....some of the pics you uploaded don't show any of the tradecraft. I'm curious to know why you picked them?
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Dogers, KROQ, Football Helmets

by Duck Twacy Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 4:46 PM

Dogers, KROQ, Footba...
img_1017.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

Another one. Also, check out 11th and Cabrillo in San Pedro. Looks like a drop area for vehicles maybe???

Oh, speaking of plates. We promised you some.

DREW 11, 3KDX904, 5DQL016 (KROQ & HAWAIIAN FLOWER), U2420 (HANDICAPPED), 4XEX095 (76 UNION ANTENNEA BALL, BIG YELLOW RIBBON DECAL - BEING USED MORE OFTEN, FYI - AND THE SEA TURTLES, ON A RED SUV, IN O.C., ON AUGUST 13TH, CAUCASIAN MALE AT WHEEL, LOOKING EMBARRASSED OR CONFUSED, OR MAYBE JUST BOTH?). 2USG043, 4WOR687, 3YTD233, 4UZZ039 (KROQ), YTV611 FIREMAN, 4HEG923, 466 MTK UTAH, 4AHC791, 5FPA417, BRW8096 NEW YORK, 4ATS472 (CALVIN PRAYING), 3RYS930, 2RGW061, 4WOL624 (DUB DECALS), 3MFV154 (FIREMAN'S HELMET), 4POU811, 4DUA204 (SEA TURTLES), 2WBN549, 4KMS841, 5BKE933, 2RGW061, 3LXT051 (FIREMANS' HELMET AND BIG BEAR PAW DECAL - PRETTY DAMN STUPID, IF YOU ASK US....), 2XML038, 3TAT533, 3CFY469, 5AYG551, B&B GARAGE DOORS - FIREMANS HELMET AND FOX RACING DECALS (SHADES OF THE PLUMBING COMPANY!), 4MMW518, LOVINHB, 4WOL624 (DUB DECAL), 4TMA897, 5BIC326, 4XOM732, 4JZR240.
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Still More Tradecraft - The Latest Decals They Are Using

by Duck Twacy Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 4:48 PM

Still More Tradecraf...
img_1018.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

Another San Pedro sighting.

A breeding ground for these perps, ya know....

;~)

Amazing huh? Kinda like they all got the same memo, the same page, the same phone call, at the same time? Or? Just cuter than shit, ya know? CUTER THAN SHIT.....!

And dumb as nails we might add.
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Tradecraft?

by DavidVGoliath Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004 at 10:08 PM

I picked the first three because of the gang sign. (Arm out window-"show us your smoke sign"). I believe that qualifies as tradecraft, at least it does in my mind. (The image is small, so you'll have to look closely, but; it is there). The photo in my rearview because it was a good example of a tail with daylight headlights. The van lic: TOM VDO, tailed me, or rather drove in front of me in two directions, to and from Paramount Studios mailroom. "In-The-Box" should be self explanatory. The Burbank Paramedic van intercepted my route at Olive and Verdugo, sirens howling, and the shot of Firestation 35 is to aquaint the readers with the image and location.

To me this is a lot more important than decals...

Dave
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New Web Page

by Duck Twacy Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 1:49 AM
Duck Twacy

This page is filled up and takes too long to load.

We're moving over to here:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/115838.php

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Longshoremen

by Duck Twacy Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 1:57 AM

Well, today a source tells us that the longies are oddly mum about who's doing the drawing of the names for this job super-lotto. In the past, you always got tipped off who it was. Palms were greased. It was "the way things were done". But remember, the source says (a former inside man in the union) back then, the guys made nothing compared to what they pull down now for working a lousy three days a week. The newbies nowadays, the source says, are a "different breed", spoiled, and lazy, and the corruption is "of a different, deeper kind". The rules of the game have changed.

Rumors are swirling around that they are nervous because the Feds may/are around in town, watching this "draw" like flies all over shit.

Ya don't suppose....? ;~)


-------------------------------------------
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-portjobs18aug18,1,672686.story?coll=la-home-headlines
With Deluge, Longshore Jobs Become Long Shots
By Ronald D. White
Times Staff Writer

August 18, 2004

Hundreds of thousands of applications have poured in for 3,000 temporary jobs at the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles — about 10 times as many submissions as expected — underscoring just how hungry people are for high-paying work in a weak labor market.

The International Longshore and Warehouse Union was so concerned about the crush of applicants that it asked a mediator Tuesday whether the hiring process could be delayed to ensure that everything runs smoothly. The mediator, however, ordered the union and West Coast shipping lines to proceed with their lottery and begin picking the 3,000 new dockworkers Thursday, as planned.

As word spread Tuesday about the flood of applications, some would-be dock hands were discouraged.

"This is almost like going to the horse track and betting on the long shot," said Raymond Sheets, a 47-year-old tree trimmer from San Diego who hopes to improve his lot by landing a job at the harbor.

The 3,000 slots, which are being offered to help handle a record amount of cargo coming through the ports, will pay $20.66 to $28 an hour — substantially higher than the average $8.38-an-hour entry-level wage in Los Angeles County. On Friday, the state reported that California's employers cut a net 17,300 jobs in July, illustrating how cautious many businesses remain when it comes to hiring.

"It's very rare in this economy, particularly for non-college-educated positions," to be so lucrative, said Michael Mische, a principal at WCL Consulting Co. of Long Beach and an adjunct professor of management at the USC Marshall School of Business. "These are highly desirable jobs, with the opportunity of becoming skilled in a vocation" that could lead to better things down the road.

Indeed, it's not clear how long any of the 3,000 jobs might last. But in at least some cases, if workers accumulate enough hours, they may be able to join the union full-time.

To apply, people were supposed to fill out a postcard bearing name, address and telephone number, and get it in the mail by last Friday. The only requirements: Be at least 18 years old, have a driver's license and be legally eligible to work in the U.S.

A Long Beach post office spokesman said Tuesday that a conservative estimate put the number of mailed-in applications at between 220,000 and 250,000. A shipping lines' representative suggested that the tally could climb substantially higher before Thursday's lottery.

The number of cards may have been inflated by applicants sending in more than one each, though officials have said people who do so would be rejected.

Even the current count far outstrips the most imaginative estimates of both dockworkers and shipping company executives, who were expecting no more than 25,000 to 30,000 to sign up for the jobs.

The hiring spree has not been without controversy.

One longshoreman filed a complaint this month with the National Labor Relations Board, charging that the shipping lines and the ILWU conspired to manipulate the jobs lottery.

The complaint by Neal Schreiner, which alleges that the selection process has been unfairly rigged to favor friends and relatives of union and shipping officials, was first reported by the Daily Breeze in Torrance. The newspaper also first reported the deluge of job applications.

At the heart of Schreiner's complaint is an agreement under which the union and the shipping lines handed out 8,000 special "longshore opportunity interest cards" to friends, relatives and acquaintances of ILWU and company officials.

If, say, 5,000 of these special postcards are filled out and returned, those running the lottery will randomly pick an additional 5,000 postcards from the hundreds of thousands submitted by the public. From there, the final 3,000 will be drawn.

In other words, half the cards in the final drawing will be from people with some kind of connection to the ports. As a result, those applicants "have a chance of maybe one out of two or three" to win a job, Schreiner said.

"The public at large has one chance in about 1,200," he added. "This is a fraud and a scam."

The Pacific Maritime Assn., which represents West Coast shipping lines, had no comment on Schreiner's complaint. An NLRB spokesman also declined to comment.

Experts disagreed about whether the process was improperly biased.

Mark Theodore, an attorney who frequently represents management in labor disputes, said that the ILWU and maritime association, when soliciting applications in newspaper ads, may have erred by not fully disclosing how the lottery would work. When the rules aren't spelled out, "you subject yourself to liability," he said.

But Jerry Hunter, who served as a general counsel of the NLRB in the early 1990s, said that it would be difficult to prove that the process favored those running the lottery, when all of the postcards have been given out to people not formally associated with the union or the companies.

Applicant Sheets was miffed when told about Schreiner's allegations. "It makes me feel very discouraged," he said. "It was supposed to be an even, fair drawing. Why did I even bother?"

In all, the ILWU and shipping lines expect to select 12,000 to 14,000 people out of the lottery. That way, they'll have extra bodies available in case some of the initial 3,000 winners don't pass their physicals or drug tests — or aren't up to the grueling task of lashing 40-foot-long shipping containers so they don't shift around at sea.

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Longshoremen

by Duck Twacy Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 1:57 AM

Well, today a source tells us that the longies are oddly mum about who's doing the drawing of the names for this job super-lotto. In the past, you always got tipped off who it was. Palms were greased. It was "the way things were done". But remember, the source says (a former inside man in the union) back then, the guys made nothing compared to what they pull down now for working a lousy three days a week. The newbies nowadays, the source says, are a "different breed", spoiled, and lazy, and the corruption is "of a different, deeper kind". The rules of the game have changed.

Rumors are swirling around that they are nervous because the Feds may/are around in town, watching this "draw" like flies all over shit.

Ya don't suppose....? ;~)


-------------------------------------------
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-portjobs18aug18,1,672686.story?coll=la-home-headlines
With Deluge, Longshore Jobs Become Long Shots
By Ronald D. White
Times Staff Writer

August 18, 2004

Hundreds of thousands of applications have poured in for 3,000 temporary jobs at the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles — about 10 times as many submissions as expected — underscoring just how hungry people are for high-paying work in a weak labor market.

The International Longshore and Warehouse Union was so concerned about the crush of applicants that it asked a mediator Tuesday whether the hiring process could be delayed to ensure that everything runs smoothly. The mediator, however, ordered the union and West Coast shipping lines to proceed with their lottery and begin picking the 3,000 new dockworkers Thursday, as planned.

As word spread Tuesday about the flood of applications, some would-be dock hands were discouraged.

"This is almost like going to the horse track and betting on the long shot," said Raymond Sheets, a 47-year-old tree trimmer from San Diego who hopes to improve his lot by landing a job at the harbor.

The 3,000 slots, which are being offered to help handle a record amount of cargo coming through the ports, will pay $20.66 to $28 an hour — substantially higher than the average $8.38-an-hour entry-level wage in Los Angeles County. On Friday, the state reported that California's employers cut a net 17,300 jobs in July, illustrating how cautious many businesses remain when it comes to hiring.

"It's very rare in this economy, particularly for non-college-educated positions," to be so lucrative, said Michael Mische, a principal at WCL Consulting Co. of Long Beach and an adjunct professor of management at the USC Marshall School of Business. "These are highly desirable jobs, with the opportunity of becoming skilled in a vocation" that could lead to better things down the road.

Indeed, it's not clear how long any of the 3,000 jobs might last. But in at least some cases, if workers accumulate enough hours, they may be able to join the union full-time.

To apply, people were supposed to fill out a postcard bearing name, address and telephone number, and get it in the mail by last Friday. The only requirements: Be at least 18 years old, have a driver's license and be legally eligible to work in the U.S.

A Long Beach post office spokesman said Tuesday that a conservative estimate put the number of mailed-in applications at between 220,000 and 250,000. A shipping lines' representative suggested that the tally could climb substantially higher before Thursday's lottery.

The number of cards may have been inflated by applicants sending in more than one each, though officials have said people who do so would be rejected.

Even the current count far outstrips the most imaginative estimates of both dockworkers and shipping company executives, who were expecting no more than 25,000 to 30,000 to sign up for the jobs.

The hiring spree has not been without controversy.

One longshoreman filed a complaint this month with the National Labor Relations Board, charging that the shipping lines and the ILWU conspired to manipulate the jobs lottery.

The complaint by Neal Schreiner, which alleges that the selection process has been unfairly rigged to favor friends and relatives of union and shipping officials, was first reported by the Daily Breeze in Torrance. The newspaper also first reported the deluge of job applications.

At the heart of Schreiner's complaint is an agreement under which the union and the shipping lines handed out 8,000 special "longshore opportunity interest cards" to friends, relatives and acquaintances of ILWU and company officials.

If, say, 5,000 of these special postcards are filled out and returned, those running the lottery will randomly pick an additional 5,000 postcards from the hundreds of thousands submitted by the public. From there, the final 3,000 will be drawn.

In other words, half the cards in the final drawing will be from people with some kind of connection to the ports. As a result, those applicants "have a chance of maybe one out of two or three" to win a job, Schreiner said.

"The public at large has one chance in about 1,200," he added. "This is a fraud and a scam."

The Pacific Maritime Assn., which represents West Coast shipping lines, had no comment on Schreiner's complaint. An NLRB spokesman also declined to comment.

Experts disagreed about whether the process was improperly biased.

Mark Theodore, an attorney who frequently represents management in labor disputes, said that the ILWU and maritime association, when soliciting applications in newspaper ads, may have erred by not fully disclosing how the lottery would work. When the rules aren't spelled out, "you subject yourself to liability," he said.

But Jerry Hunter, who served as a general counsel of the NLRB in the early 1990s, said that it would be difficult to prove that the process favored those running the lottery, when all of the postcards have been given out to people not formally associated with the union or the companies.

Applicant Sheets was miffed when told about Schreiner's allegations. "It makes me feel very discouraged," he said. "It was supposed to be an even, fair drawing. Why did I even bother?"

In all, the ILWU and shipping lines expect to select 12,000 to 14,000 people out of the lottery. That way, they'll have extra bodies available in case some of the initial 3,000 winners don't pass their physicals or drug tests — or aren't up to the grueling task of lashing 40-foot-long shipping containers so they don't shift around at sea.

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Longshoremen

by Duck Twacy Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 2:00 AM



Longshoremen



Well, today a source tells us that the longies are oddly mum about who's doing the drawing of the names for this job super-lotto. In the past, you always got tipped off who it was. Palms were greased. It was "the way things were done". But remember, the source says (a former inside man in the union) back then, the guys made nothing compared to what they pull down now for working a lousy three days a week. The newbies nowadays, the source says, are a "different breed", spoiled, and lazy, and the corruption is "of a different, deeper kind". The rules of the game have changed.

Rumors are swirling around that they are nervous because the Feds may/are around in town, watching this "draw" like flies all over shit.

Ya don't suppose....? ;~)


-------------------------------------------
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-portjobs18aug18,1,672686.story?coll=la-home-headlines
With Deluge, Longshore Jobs Become Long Shots
By Ronald D. White
Times Staff Writer

August 18, 2004

Hundreds of thousands of applications have poured in for 3,000 temporary jobs at the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles — about 10 times as many submissions as expected — underscoring just how hungry people are for high-paying work in a weak labor market.

The International Longshore and Warehouse Union was so concerned about the crush of applicants that it asked a mediator Tuesday whether the hiring process could be delayed to ensure that everything runs smoothly. The mediator, however, ordered the union and West Coast shipping lines to proceed with their lottery and begin picking the 3,000 new dockworkers Thursday, as planned.

As word spread Tuesday about the flood of applications, some would-be dock hands were discouraged.

"This is almost like going to the horse track and betting on the long shot," said Raymond Sheets, a 47-year-old tree trimmer from San Diego who hopes to improve his lot by landing a job at the harbor.

The 3,000 slots, which are being offered to help handle a record amount of cargo coming through the ports, will pay $20.66 to $28 an hour — substantially higher than the average $8.38-an-hour entry-level wage in Los Angeles County. On Friday, the state reported that California's employers cut a net 17,300 jobs in July, illustrating how cautious many businesses remain when it comes to hiring.

"It's very rare in this economy, particularly for non-college-educated positions," to be so lucrative, said Michael Mische, a principal at WCL Consulting Co. of Long Beach and an adjunct professor of management at the USC Marshall School of Business. "These are highly desirable jobs, with the opportunity of becoming skilled in a vocation" that could lead to better things down the road.

Indeed, it's not clear how long any of the 3,000 jobs might last. But in at least some cases, if workers accumulate enough hours, they may be able to join the union full-time.

To apply, people were supposed to fill out a postcard bearing name, address and telephone number, and get it in the mail by last Friday. The only requirements: Be at least 18 years old, have a driver's license and be legally eligible to work in the U.S.

A Long Beach post office spokesman said Tuesday that a conservative estimate put the number of mailed-in applications at between 220,000 and 250,000. A shipping lines' representative suggested that the tally could climb substantially higher before Thursday's lottery.

The number of cards may have been inflated by applicants sending in more than one each, though officials have said people who do so would be rejected.

Even the current count far outstrips the most imaginative estimates of both dockworkers and shipping company executives, who were expecting no more than 25,000 to 30,000 to sign up for the jobs.

The hiring spree has not been without controversy.

One longshoreman filed a complaint this month with the National Labor Relations Board, charging that the shipping lines and the ILWU conspired to manipulate the jobs lottery.

The complaint by Neal Schreiner, which alleges that the selection process has been unfairly rigged to favor friends and relatives of union and shipping officials, was first reported by the Daily Breeze in Torrance. The newspaper also first reported the deluge of job applications.

At the heart of Schreiner's complaint is an agreement under which the union and the shipping lines handed out 8,000 special "longshore opportunity interest cards" to friends, relatives and acquaintances of ILWU and company officials.

If, say, 5,000 of these special postcards are filled out and returned, those running the lottery will randomly pick an additional 5,000 postcards from the hundreds of thousands submitted by the public. From there, the final 3,000 will be drawn.

In other words, half the cards in the final drawing will be from people with some kind of connection to the ports. As a result, those applicants "have a chance of maybe one out of two or three" to win a job, Schreiner said.

"The public at large has one chance in about 1,200," he added. "This is a fraud and a scam."

The Pacific Maritime Assn., which represents West Coast shipping lines, had no comment on Schreiner's complaint. An NLRB spokesman also declined to comment.

Experts disagreed about whether the process was improperly biased.

Mark Theodore, an attorney who frequently represents management in labor disputes, said that the ILWU and maritime association, when soliciting applications in newspaper ads, may have erred by not fully disclosing how the lottery would work. When the rules aren't spelled out, "you subject yourself to liability," he said.

But Jerry Hunter, who served as a general counsel of the NLRB in the early 1990s, said that it would be difficult to prove that the process favored those running the lottery, when all of the postcards have been given out to people not formally associated with the union or the companies.

Applicant Sheets was miffed when told about Schreiner's allegations. "It makes me feel very discouraged," he said. "It was supposed to be an even, fair drawing. Why did I even bother?"

In all, the ILWU and shipping lines expect to select 12,000 to 14,000 people out of the lottery. That way, they'll have extra bodies available in case some of the initial 3,000 winners don't pass their physicals or drug tests — or aren't up to the grueling task of lashing 40-foot-long shipping containers so they don't shift around at sea.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wednesday, August 18, 2004

Entries for port jobs' lottery pass 300,000
SAN PEDRO: Deluge of postcards for a chance at the new part-time longshore positions won't delay drawing, officials say.

By Donna Littlejohn, Daily Breeze




Appearing to surpass all of the original estimates, a flood of lottery cards for part-time longshore applications has poured in since Friday's postmark deadline, with more expected.


No exact figures were available Monday, but Steve Stallone, spokesman for the International Longshore and Warehouse Union office in San Francisco, said as many as 300,000 cards already were in hand for the 3,000 available positions.


The exact number, though, could not be confirmed with local ILWU or Pacific Maritime Association officials.


And while meetings are ongoing and there have been rumors that Thursday's drawing could be postponed, Stallone said Monday that it appeared the process was "proceeding as planned."


The large numbers of postcards, however, could prove a challenge.


"I think it's going to become difficult to process all of these in some fashion," Stallone said.


Weeding out duplicate cards, for example, "is going to be tough to do," Stallone said.


Meanwhile, charges have been filed with the National Labor Relations Board alleging that the process, which gives preprinted industry cards better odds in the lottery drawing, is biased.


Longshoreman and long-time ILWU critic Neal Schreiner filed the charges, naming both the union and PMA, representing employers, in the complaint.


"There's nothing fair about this at all," Schreiner said. "The public at large is being deprived of equal opportunity."


Under the planned lottery system, all of the union and other industry cards (expected to be somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000) will be placed in a separate drum while a matching number of cards from the public -- chosen in a preliminary lottery and leaving out the bulk of public cards sent in -- will be combined for the final drawing.


Union officials defend the practice, saying applicants who live locally and are most familiar with the industry are better prepared to take on the job responsibilities of longshore work.


But others complain the process is unfair to those with no ties to the union.


"They need to put a halt to this until they can work this out to satisfy everybody," said P. Hillman who lives in the Long Beach area and has friends who sent in public cards. "It seems like they're being totally unfair to the public."


There were rumors last week that the union might abandon the so-called "two-drum" procedure in light of potential legal challenges, but ILWU's Stallone said the original plan appears to still be going forward.


"I'm sure things are being discussed, but I have no reason to suspect anything's going to change," Stallone said.


An investigation and decision on Schreiner's NLRB charge is expected to take seven weeks.


"We'll do an investigation and make a determination on whether we think it has merit or not," NLRB regional attorney Bill Pate said of the charge. "If not, we'll dismiss it. If we think it does have merit, we'd attempt to settle with the parties."


ILWU clerical workers also have filed a petition charging that the unit's 750 members were unfairly left out of the distribution of preprinted cards.


The petition was signed by 300 members of the unit, which is affiliated with Marine Clerks Local 63.


"We feel as dues-paying union members in good standing that we should have been given cards," said a member involved in the effort who declined to give her name. "We feel that it's discriminatory."


Some of the ILWU's 2,000 pensioners also were upset that they did not receive the cards.


Members of Locals 13, 63 and 94 received the preprinted cards, along with some casual workers and 500 Pacific Maritime Association member companies, to give to friends and family.


John Fageaux Jr., president of the clerical unit, said he was aware of the petition but did not wish to comment about its merits.


"I haven't seen it, but I heard talk about it," he said. "There were some individuals who felt since we're a sister local that we should have been entitled to the cards."


Publish Date:August 17, 2004



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Of course, sheepdip and Oscar Meyer London Weiner are not really absent from this thread.

by Max Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 11:28 AM

My previous observation was just a trope involving incongruity between what is apparent and what is actually occuring. These two clowns are the resident loonies and it wouldn't surprise me if they co-authored this thread.

See my satire of the work of these goofballs here:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/115742.php
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Riverside County Has THEM too....

by Patrick Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 11:56 AM

I just thought you'd like to know Ive noticed this stuff going on out here in Riverside for a couple of years now. Always wondered what was up.

We have the "bogus firemen" too. I think it's drug related some of this, seems like the guys doing it look mostly to be Mexicans or gang bangers, like you guys are saying.

Maybe it's the military running some kind of deal here to keep us in line - ha - Patriot Act? Or maybe it's just the Mexicanization of the South West.

Or maybe a combo of both?

Seems to be two schools of thought going on in this thread - one thinks it's "police state/surveillance state/big brother" - other seems to point finger more at organized crime operations, drug cartels, and gangs/Mexicans.

Interesting stuff, keep posting it. I think it's gotten worse last few years. Definately noticing it out here, for sure, more than would be if just a "coincidence".

Interesting times we are in....
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Who are the mysterious ones?

by Meyer London Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 12:42 PM

Tis Max and the other Cheetos Boys, still trying to get their Eagle Scout badges.
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Is this the Same Max the Air Force Goon from Texas?

by Anonymous Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 5:34 PM

FYI, posters: This may be the same "Max" that crapped up another indymedia page. Take a hike, man.

Hey, great posts btw, Duck and David; we have these clowns where I live too, they typically use radio station decals along with some other stuff on their cars, and they appear to be gang members. Both men and women. Kids too.

Cops pop 'em a lot where I live, you see them getting pulled over all the time and cited for one thing or another, the cops don't tolerate them one bit unlike what you guys are saying about LA. They tail them on freeways and so they must know about these guys, like you guys claim they do.

I'm further north btw....

I turned my friends on to this page and they are all going whoa, dude! Seen this, been here! I even posted these links on about six different groups....

I also saw this link posted at a patriot forum and in some Yahoo groups, so you're getting spread around a lot on the web. Keep it up....

I think it's cool, maybe you'll get some "perps" popped by cops or feds like you say....
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Terrorist Stalking in America

by Anonymous Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 5:41 PM

This is from your other site:

Book Review:
Terrorist Stalking in America
by David Lawson,
reviewer Eleanor White
This page updated April 26, 2004
Copyright 2001
Published by Scrambling News
915 N.W. First Avenue - Suite 2903
Miami, FL 33136-3541 USA
ISBN 0-9703092-0-1
73 pages, indexed

Purchase source:

http://www.scramblingnews.com/catpage.html

** FOUR STARS **
This book is an INCREDIBLE resource for victims of multiple stalking and group harassment. The author accomplished what multiple stalking victims only DREAM about - he penetrated street level perpetrator groups. Although this book does not indicate David Lawson is aware of the full spectrum of advanced electronics some of these groups have and use, this book is likely to be very helpful for victims who are forced to deal with skeptical family, friends, co-workers, and local authorities. It is definitely a breakthrough in the cause of exposing and stopping these criminal gangs who operate freely, while law enforcement only gives their lowest ranking street level members a slap on the wrist now and then (while they deny such crimes happen to victims who complain.)
If a multiple stalking victim can comfortably afford the book, I'd give it a definite "buy" recommendation. It will certainly open at least some of the minds of people we multiple stalking victims are forced to deal with.


** One book in the bibliography, "Harvest of Rage" by Joel Dyer, is a totally WRONG viewpoint of the current-day U.S. Patriot Movement. See my notes below the biography.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Concepts Table (Relevant Points)
(Scroll down for book's table of contents)

Note: This "Concepts Table" is to speed up access to those points of
special relevance to multiple stalking victims. This table doesn't
appear in the book itself.

Note: "Perp" is short for perpetrator of the stalking crimes.

Police aware of these groups .................................. VI
"Cause stalking" .............................................. VI
Author mistaken - not ALL "Patriot" groups .................... --
Tactics used by "cause stalkers" .............................. VII
Cause stalkers always there ................................... VII
Author's favorite quotes from perps he "rode" with ............ 15
Personality types of the perpetrators ......................... 16
Firemen can be perps .......................................... 16
Tearing up road is one recruitment goal ....................... 17
Perp LEADERS have shadowy backgrounds ......................... 17
Stalker groups' financial sources ............................. 20
Perps surround apartment of target ............................ 26
Adjacent apt - steady stream of people day and night .......... 27
"Who are we", perps' own statement about themselves ........... 27
The "cause" isn't the most important thing to group members ... --
Victims don't always recognize harassment as such ............. 32
Isolating victim is the goal .................................. 32
Surrounding victim on the road ................................ 32
The on foot harassment methods ................................ 33
Ah, the trusty old "noise campaign" trick! .................... 34
Neighbors' synchronized leaving/arriving ...................... 34
Horns/sirens synced to toilet use ............................. 34
Synchronized movement, apts above or below .................... 35
Interference with personal and business relationships ......... 35
Leaders' claims of national security affiliation .............. 37
Stalker groups blame TARGET for their shortcomings ............ 49
Character assassination ....................................... 51
Stalking leaders say targets should be killed ................. 54
Gross disinformation in book "Harvest of Rage" ................ --

Table of Contents

FOREWORD ...................................................... VI
1. Intro to Extremist Groups ................................ 10
2. Who Are These People? .................................... 16
3. Selection of Targets ..................................... 19
3. Group Structure .......................................... 22
5. The Surveillance Operation ............................... 25
6. Search and Seizure ....................................... 28
7. Overt or Covert Operation ................................ 32
8. Let's Pretend ............................................ 37
8. Influence Techniques ..................................... 40
9. Self Defense ............................................. 48
11. Conclusion ............................................... 53

Note: Chapter numbering errors are actually found in the book. This
book is far to valuable to be concerned with that.

Appendix A - DOJ article on stalking .......................... 57
Bibliography .................................................. 67
References .................................................... 73
Back to Top of Table of Contents

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Eleanor White talking:

This book places the blame for much group stalking in the United States on what the author calls "extremist groups". We who are in the current day electronic harassment target community have, from time to time, seen evidence that local "extremist groups", who appear to be normal, "upright" model citizens, are responsible for at least some of our torture. One page with some very interesting revelations by one of our members who is an accomplished remote viewer is here:

http://www.multistalkervictims.org/stalkergroups.htm

This author describes local extremist groups who go to considerable lengths to actually masquerade as public officials. We electronic harassment targets also report bizarre and sometimes unethical and illegal behaviour on the part of genuine public officials too, so this book should be viewed as supplementary information, and not the "entire story" behind current day electronic harassment.

Let me say here that this author, basing his opinion on a misleading document by the Southern Poverty Law Center, alleges "Patriots" are one of the extremist groups which participate in stalking and harassment. The actual criminal groups frequently DO appeal to potential helpers' "patriotism" to obtain help in carrying out their harassment. But the SPLC report MISTAKENLY IMPLIES that EVERYONE who adopts the "Patriot" label is involved in these odious crimes.

I listen daily to broadcasts by the group calling themselves the U.S. Patriot Movement, and which you, visitor can access via the WEB, shortwave, and some AM-FM stations from this listening guide:

http://www.multistalkervictims.org/shortwave.htm

The Patriot Movement which broadcasts on those stations aggressively works to expose and stop all such well covered up crimes. It is clear the Southern Policy Law Center people who refer to Patriot Movement shortwave broadcasters as terrorist stalkers has NEVER actually listened to the broadcasts!

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Before we get started, author David Lawson did interview perpetrators, ("perps"), targetted people ("targets"), and the POLICE. Here is what the author heard from the police he interviewed:

"I also spoke with police officers from across the country. They confirmed the existence of stalking groups across the country. In general, they said that 'cause stalking' is primarily a civil problem where the plaintiff has to prove financial loss. They also said that there are free speech and grass roots issues involved. In fact, the police themselves are targets of these groups. In small towns, the number of members in these groups can easily exceed the number of police officers. In general, the police will NOT talk about stalking groups. One officer did say there is a storm brewing as groups become larger and more numerous."
Author Lawson explains here how he got involved and began to interact with the 'cause stalking' perpetrators:

"One day, several years ago, I was sitting in my house, and checking out the activity on my scanner. I heard a woman say that she was following a certain vehicle. She gave the location, the make and model of the car and the license plate number. A few days later, I heard the same woman on the same frequency say that she needed a bit of help at a certain location and a few days after that I again heard her broadcasting the position and details about another vehicle she was following. I listened to other people talking on that frequency and they didn't give any indication that they were with any government agency but they were talking about ARRESTING PEOPLE.
"On another occasion, on the same business band frequency, I heard someone complain that an African American man was crossing the street. "All we could get him for is jaywalking" responded the leader.

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"People in the group would discuss where they would go for supper, after their shift was over, so I [the author] went too. I listened to a group of people openly discussing various activities as if they were the police.

"Real police officers were also sitting in the restaurant, listening to them. I later learned that their presence was not a coincidence.

"One man who had supper with the group drove a van marked with the call letters of a local AM radio station. I started listening to it. Most of the guests were people who said they had new revelations about Waco or Ruby Ridge, or had some inside story about government corruption. I also heard advertisements for the meetings of a local political group and I attended some.

"At the first meeting I attended, one young man flashed a phony police badge at me. No one paid any attention. Some of those in attendance were the people I had seen in the local restaurant. This was my introduction to the creepy world of extremists."

David Lawson goes on to explain that he has observed extremist groups for several years while living in New York State, Florida, and Canada.
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He monitored their public communications, attended meetings, rode with them. The author defines the basic reason for being for these group stalking gangs as CAUSE STALKING. Cause stalking means the group is assembled, under a leader with a "shadowy past", for some specific cause. But what actually happens is that these gangs seem to be:

"... groups of individuals who appear to be borderline retarded, mentally ill, or deluded into thinking that they are secret agents."
And ... "Cause stalking has been used by extremist groups since the early 1990s. The basic system is alleged to have been developed by the Ku Klux Klan and refined through years of use.

Easy to recruit, right? More than that,
"Group members are taught that THE TARGET IS THE REASON FOR THEIR PROBLEMS. He is the reason why their lives are a failure."
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More details about the typical cause stalking recruit:

"Recruits tend to be blue collar workers who are at the bottom end of the job scale. They are janitors in apartments, hotels, etc., who have keys to get in any locked doors. They are security guards, who can let fellow members into places where they would not normally be allowed to go. They are city workers, who can, in many cities, follow a target around all day in their vehicles or have a noisy project underway near his [target's] residence. They are taxi drivers, who are always on the road. They are cable, telephone and electric company employees who can interfere with a target's service and spend time on patrol with the group, while they are on the job.
Those are the author's words. Here are a few quotes from the perpetrators themselves:
"We are like the police except we are ABOVE the police."
"We are a citizen's group that helps the police. We are trying to alert people in the area about this person [the target] before he gets to do what he did in the last place he lived." [Eleanor White talking: All the cause stalking targets I know did not commit ANY offenses. The stalkers are filled with LIES by their leaders.]

"When I get the call, I go to whatever the address is. It doesn't matter what they [targets] do, they can never get away from us."

"Who are we? We drive the ambulances that take you to the emergency room. When your house is burning, we put out the fire. We are security guards. We protect you at night. YOU ONLY HAVE ELECTRICITY, PHONE AND CABLE SERVICE BECAUSE OF US. We are janitors. We have the keys. We fix your cars. YOU DON'T WANT TO MESS WITH US."

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The author concludes, as explained at a number of places in the book, that the "cause" the typical group is "working toward" is mainly an excuse to get the groups together. The main motivation of members who stay with these groups is the sense of power and belonging the group members derive. Having a "cause" enhances the feelings of power and righteousness, but group members, according to the author, are most concerned with how their fellow group stalkers feel about their "work" and accept them.

These groups come into being and are run by leaders. Here is what the author says about them:

"Most of these leaders HAVE BACKGROUNDS WHICH ARE NOT KNOWN TO THEIR SUPPORTERS. They are from 'somewhere else' and there isn't much information available about them from independent sources. This provides a basis for the 'larger than life' stature they assume in these groups. Many claim to have connections to the C.I.A. or other intelligence agencies which do not reveal the identities of their employees or ex-employees."
How about financing these groups? Although the author states that the pay is low, there are still very large expenses to harass people as thoroughly as targets report. Here is an example of what I mean by "large expenses":
"Groups are WELL FINANCED. They can afford to RENT PROPERTY WHEREVER THE TARGET LIVES. If he drives across the country, he will be followed by supporters of similar groups in that area. If he travels by plane, group members will meet him wherever he lands. They may even accompany him on a plane if they know his travel plan, and there is a good chance that they do."
Back to Top of Table of Contents
Here is what the author learned about their financing:

"The operations of many extremist groups are actually financed by CORPORATIONS which use them to stalk their enemies or potential enemies. The groups are used as the PRIVATE ARMIES of those corporations. Some countries kill dissidents and in others they are jailed. In the United States, someone who is threatening to corporations or industries, like a whistleblower or activist, is likely to become the target of an extremist group."
The author makes several statements that these criminal stalking gangs not only harass targets specified by their leaders, but also are FOR HIRE - a kind of "revenge service" for those wealthy enough to hire them.
Next, let's look at some of the typical OPERATIONS these groups carry out:

"The primary characteristic of cause stalking is that it is done by LARGE GROUPS OF PEOPLE. A target will always be followed, but he is unlikely to see the same stalkers very often." ...
"Many of these groups include hundreds of people."

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"Some authors refer to cause stalking as terrorist stalking. Groups do not just stalk individuals. They employ organized programs of harassment which include BREAK-INS, PROPERTY DAMAGE, ASSAULT AND OCCASIONALLY, EVEN DEATH. The CHILDREN of a target are a favorite."

"Firemen across the country, and even some police departments have a long history of supporting extremist groups. Fire trucks can sometimes be seen riding in extremist convoys, with their flashing lights turned on and their sirens screaming. They will also race to greet a convoy which is entering their town. The participation of firemen, city workers and utility company workers helps give group members an illusion of legitimacy and power."

"City employees can be used to harass a target in many ways including tearing up the road in front of a target's home. Employees of pest control businesses who have access to the keys for apartments and those who work for alarm and locksmith companies are also of interest."
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"Groups also attack targets of convenience. These people are selected because they are convenient targets, and not for any other reason. These include loners who tend to be more vulnerable to their harassment tactics than those with family and friends around them. Targets of convenience are used for practice."

"Groups have contacts in the media which they use to disseminate information about their targets. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL TO SEE THE VEHICLES OF LOCAL TELEVISION STATIONS RIDING IN EXTREMIST CONVOYS."

"In order to establish bases of operation, they will ENLIST THE ASSISTANCE OF NEIGHBORS. In many areas, they can do this by intimidation. Those who do not co-operate can be targetted, which includes harassment of their families and damage to their homes and vehicles.
"If they are dealing with individuals who do not know them, they can also appeal to their sense of patriotism and they can offer drugs, friendship, home repair, free taxi rides and what ever else they have to. In some cases they may even be able to get a key to the residence from a 'patriotic' landlord."

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"Surveillance is conducted 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. When a target leaves his residence they will alert the group, either by cell phone or by business band radio. Other members, who are patrolling the perimeter to watch for police and other vehicles driving in the area, will race to the location to begin pursuit. In small towns, where business band radio is widely used, these activities are a local sport among a small group. Anyone with a scanner can join in. Some targets have reported hearing an announcement on their scanners AS SOON AS THEY TURN THEIR LIGHTS ON IN THE MORNING."

"In a typical apartment setting, they will attempt to lease, sublet, or otherwise have access to apartments above, below, and on both sides of the target. They will also "guard" the vehicles of a target in the parking lot. If they have occupied apartments surrounding a target, typically normal noises like toilets flushing, doors closing, people talking, etc. will not be heard. The only noises that will be heard are in response to something the target does. If he flushes a toilet, he may hear a car horn honk, the sound of a power tool or hammering, for example. There will also be a large number of people coming and going, and accompanying rowdiness and noise."
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"A common ruse used by these groups is that they are a 'citizens group' which assists the police and they are 'just keeping track of' a certain individual, for whatever reason. The illusion is reinforced by the case files they carry which are complete with photos of the target and look like those used by police."

"Typically, harassment tactics are not used unless a target is alone. If he is with others, group members will still surround him, but they will not reveal their presence. Many targets never experience the kind of harassment described here, because they are not alone very often.

Others do not recognize that they are being harassed by an organized group. They just think that there are a lot of rude people in the world. Targets who do not experience physical harassment are still targets for other types of attacks.
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"Physical harassment is used when a target has no witnesses. An objective is to isolate the target from his family and friends. He can tell them about all the strange things happening around him, but they will not understand and perhaps will think he is crazy. Sometimes other members of the family will receive the same treatment."

"When a target is driving, standard practice is to surround his vehicle and attempt to control his speed. He will not be followed in close proximity by the same vehicles for a long distance. They do frequent trade-offs. Vehicles line up behind the target for a short distance and then move out of place so the next vehicle can take over. Frequently, vehicles in the convoy will have their high beam headlights on during the day, so a target frequently have a vehicle behind him which has its headlights on.
"In many parts of the country it is common to see groups of six to 30 or more vehicles driving around in convoys with their high beams on during the day. This is one of the ways a convoy can be identified."

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"A target will be followed on foot wherever he goes. Anyone can go to the same public places he goes, and they will attempt to get into any other restricted places he goes, including hospitals, places of employment, etc. It has been said that it is possible to go nearly anywhere if you have a clipboard in your hand and it is almost true. They also like to wear name badges on a lanyard, and some carry phony police badges."

"Common harassment tactics used by those on foot include PEN CLICKING, in which they repeatedly click a ball point pen, key rattling, and rattling change in their pockets while standing behind the target. Many tactics are tried and the result is observed. Those which evoke a response from the target are repeated. When a target sits anywhere in public, group members will attempt to sit behind him in order to create noise, by whatever means, including tapping their feet on the target's chair. The objective is to harass the target constantly."
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"Groups attempt to interfere with any business and personal relationships which the target has. Typically, this interference involves character assassination from some anonymous individual and is not usually taken seriously by those who know the target. It can be effective with people who don't know the target."

"At work, the target will also experience character assassination. If he works in any position where he has to deal with the public, there will be a steady stream of customers who complain about him. If he is a real estate agent, he will have a steady stream of prospects who OCCUPY HIS TIME but never make an offer."

"A common tactic use by groups is noise campaigns. Group members will drive by the target's residence or work place, honking their horns, squealing tires, and making whatever other noise they can."
"They will also make noise from whatever NEARBY PROPERTIES they have access to. Typically, they will make noise WHEN THE TARGET GOES OUTSIDE. [Eleanor White talking: OR, when the target opens a window, and I mean timed to the millisecond! Open, close, perfect sync!] Group members will also frequently knock on his door for whatever peculiar reasons they can dream up."

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"In an apartment setting, targets can expect to hear tapping on the walls in the middle of the night, taps running, hammering etc. from the upper and/or lower apartments, and possibly the apartments on both sides. They will continue to 'work' on these activities for as long as they can get away with them."

"Other vehicle related tactics include blockade, so the target vehicle cannot leave a parking lot, for example, or he is surrounded by slow moving vehicles.
"Standard practice is to watch the target's vehicles and this subjects them to damage including slashed tires, scratched paint, stolen license plates, etc. Typically they would not cut the brake lines on vehicles or commit other similar acts of sabotage, but they WOULD drain the oil or antifreeze over a period of TIME. [Eleanor White: AMEN!]"


"... It is not uncommon, in an apartment setting, for a target to hear someone moving from room to room as he does, from the upper or lower apartment. [Eleanor White talking: This requires commercial through wall radar or more advanced technology in many cases.]
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Often they occupy a nearby apartment, part time, when the owner is not there and he receives some benefit. A target may notice someone leaving a nearby apartment when he leaves his, and arrive when he arrives. [Eleanor White talking: All the time, in my experience.] In addition, he will often be accompanied in elevators by a steady stream of different individuals who go to the apartments being used by the group.

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Now that is a HUGE "laundry list" of operations carried out against the targets of these criminal cause stalking groups. But reader, this particular book is ALL MEAT, and there is MUCH, MUCH more within its covers. If the general public is made aware of this book, these brutal crimes, which have resulted in suicides, just might have a chance of being exposed and stopped.

Currently, the typical justice system response is to label the victim as mentally ill and wash their hands of the problem. This is itself a criminal act, and a violation of all the job descriptions and oaths these public officials have accepted and made. They are NOT doing their jobs!

What about the future, then? Let me close this review with a chilling quote from the book reporting what the author learned from some of the leaders:

"The leaders ... are starting to balk at exposing their members to arrest for activities which amount to little gain for the movement. THEY SAY THAT ANYONE WHO IS A TARGET SHOULD BE KILLED, and not just harassed for years."
YOU, Joe and Jane Citizen, have the power to stop this by doing nothing more than asking your public officials how they plan to deal with this growing crime. Will you help us?
Eleanor White

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bibliography
[p 73]
Robert L. Snow, "Stopping a Stalker", Plenum Press, 1998

Robert J. Lifton, "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism", University of North Carolina

Frank J. Donner, "Protectors of Privilege", University of California Press, 1990

Frank J. Donner, "The Age of Surveillance", Alfred A. Knopf Inc., 1980

Joel Dyer, "Harvest of Rage", Westview Press, 1998 [E.W. Thumbs down!]

* See also Eleanor White's REVIEW of Harvest of Rage

Eleanor White talking: The above book, "Harvest of Rage", is an attempt to paint ALL members of the U.S. Patriot Movement as extremists, criminals, religious fanatics, and mentally ill. At the time of writing this review, I have listened to their shortwave, web, and AM/FM broadcasts for two years. If Mr. Dyer has ever listened to those broadcasts, then I have to conclude he is deliberately trying to discredit this movement for motives unknown. My guess is Mr. Dyer has not.

I have heard an endless stream of documented information, often from wire services before getting edited by retail media outlets, and government publications, which shows conclusively that the U.S. Patriot Movement broadcasters are on the right track and speak out often against anti government violence. The goal of the U.S. Patriot broadcasters is non-violent change, brought about by PUBLIC EDUCATION. Anyone who takes the time to LISTEN to their broadcasts will find the same. It is easy to listen to them by way of this listening guide:

http://www.multistalkervictims.org/shortwave.htm

I'm afraid the author of Terrorist Stalking in America, David Lawson, has not taken the time to listen to these broadcasts either, and so has a not fully informed opinion about the Patriots.

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

References
[p 73]

1. FBI web site, http://www.fbi.gov
2. "The Rise and Decline of the Patriots", Southern Poverty
Law Center Report, summer 2001, issue #102,
http://www.splcenter.org/intelligenceproject/ip-index.html
3. Frank J. Donner, "Protectors of Privilege", University of
California Press, 1990, 252
4. LCDR Steven Mack Presley, "The Rise of Domestic Terrorism
and its Relation to United States Armed Forces", written
in fulfillment of a requirement for the Marine Corps
Command and Staff College, 26,
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/presley.htm
5. Robert L. Snow, "Stopping a Stalker", Plenum Press, 1998, 85
6. Robert L. Snow, "Stopping a Stalker", Plenum Press, 1998, 94
7. Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology 89-1367 and 89-1361
8. Robert Jay Lifton, "Thought Reform and the Psychology of
Totalism", University of North Carolina Press, 1989, 419

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Catch du Jour: Plates, Photos

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 20, 2004 at 4:53 PM

Catch du Jour: Plate...
img_0998.jpguwuzmy.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

More catches, with apologies of course, to any "good guys" we may have tagged by mistake. Like....BS4444 Washington, D.C. The plate.....says it all.... ;~)

One way you know you've tripped on to perp plates is that you see them once, then never again. In other words, in a "normal" situation, you see the same folks driving home the same time every day from work, give or take. You recognize some cars and plates, maybe even faces. It's when you see the once only types that whiz by you like they are trying to send you a message, that you know they are probably bogus, and part of this "thing going on".

5AES594 Tinkerbell decal; DUMBROD, SANDLR, JSSHPNS, IXLYVES, 4VVZ936, 4ERP019, 4N41047 Raiders Decals and Tweety decal, 703 BEK Oregon, 4WBH513 Fireman's helmet, 4MPT873, 4M71149 KROQ, 5DNZ ??? huge yellow ribbon decal on a champagne colored MBZ, 4VLC319, 4EMN085, YATCHAN, 4MPG071, 913 FKP Arizona, 462 KCC Arizona, 4BPL202.

The decals du jour: W (for George Bush) circle decals were the flavor of the day. Lights were on. We even saw the dreaded (!) triangle within a circle. Usually associated with Scientology. Yuk. Old gal at wheel of Toyota Camry (fave car for perps to use as they blend it, or would blend in, if they didn't dress them up with their stupid tricks).

Look around on your town's streets. Notice those that seem abnormally filled up with cars. Note if they are there, then gone, replaced by new ones, or new old ones. Constantly. This is a sign of "them".

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The "W" Trick

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 20, 2004 at 5:12 PM

The "W" Tr...
img_1021.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

Yeah, well, there ARE some who think Bush IS connected to organized crime....eh?

Of course, it's all....JUST A RUMOR.....right?

Right..... ;~)
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Another One on the 405 Northbound in Orange and LA Counties

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 20, 2004 at 5:14 PM

Another One on the 4...
img_1019.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

Interesting "traffic" we had tonight, and some out there...will agree.....???!!!!
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Yet ANOTHR Page; Max Can't Keep Up!

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 20, 2004 at 5:25 PM

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/115920_comment.php#115923
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GANGSTALKING AND STOP COVERT WAR

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 20, 2004 at 5:47 PM

gang (ga[ng]): A group of criminals or hoodlums who
band together for mutual protection and profit.

stalk (stôk): To follow or observe (a person)
persistently, especially out of obsession or
derangement.

gang stalk°ing: A group of criminals or hoodlums who
band together for mutual protection and profit to
follow or observe (a person) persistently,
especially out of obsession or derangement. Also
known as 'cause stalking' or 'vengeance stalking'.


OVERVIEW

Gang stalking is a phenomenon which victims have reported occuring for upwards of 15 years in their own life. It appears that once a person is targeted, they are often targeted for life. Gang stalking involves the use of multiple individuals to stalk, harass and taunt a victim, as well as to vandalize personal property. This topic is covered in David Lawson's book Terrorist Stalking in America.

Techniques of psychological warfare are used against the target in a methodical and well orchestrated attack that often leaves the target a victim of ridicule among his friends and family because this occurrence is so hard to believe. However, it does occur, and the number of targets are increasing to the point that they can network with one another and find out that the same tactics are used everywhere. These tactics, also used in ritual abuse, are intended to weaken the target to the point of mental and psychological collapse.

The reasons for why a person is initially targeted can vary. Sometimes the person may be a political activist. Others may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Corporations apparently have even been known to hire these stalking groups for reasons that only they can fathom. Many times these stalking gangs may be lied to about the target, thinking that perhaps the person is a pervert who needs to be driven out of town. The reasons are only limited to the imagination. In some cases, according to Lawson, the person has done nothing wrong but is used as a practice target or as an example to others in the group to show what will happen to them if they 'defect'. This serves to keep the members of these stalking groups tied to the group through intense fear of becoming a target. It is such a terrifying prospect because the gang members are intimately aware that the lives of the targets are utterly destroyed.

The psychological reasoning behind this activity is at least, in part, that it is more painful to torture a person and keep them alive, than allow them to die. In addition, there is less likelihood of the appearance of foul play when there is no dead body to account for. But there are added reasons that this goes on. Clearly from the expressions on the faces of the perpetrators who come face-to-face with their targets, there is a vicious kind of pleasure that they derive in "being in control". They like it. It is an addiction that needs to be fed, so victims remain targets for their entire lives. If they did not, then the numbers of fresh victims needed to fill the perpetrator's addictions would potentially attract too much attention. None-the-less, the numbers of targeted individuals is increasing. Such is the nature of the bottomless pit within them that thirsts, evermore, for greater and greater thrills. To the perpetrators, their targets are merely their prey, in a game that never ends.


DESCRIPTION OF ACTIVITIES

The types of activities which take place are often subtle, and sometimes cannot be distinguished from normal everyday things that go wrong. In the case of a target, however, there are certain behaviors that are not normal or everyday in nature. It is the anomalous activities that let a target know they are being stalked. It is a psychological reign of terror intended to make a victim look crazy and intended to keep him or her in a constant state of anxiety and stress as to "what will happen next".

There was a 1944 movie called "Gaslight" about a husband trying to drive his wife crazy, from which the term "gaslighting" was derived. According to Slang City, "to gaslight someone is to drive them crazy by intentionally confusing them. It comes from the 1944 movie Gaslight, in which sweet heiress Ingrid Bergman marries creepy Charles Boyer, who hopes to get her inheritance by driving her insane. He convinces her she's seeing and hearing things that don't exist, including the gaslights (what they had before light bulbs) going on and off when he isn't home." The subtle techniques used to make the wife doubt her own sanity are the same techniques used by these gang stalkers to unnerve a target. To see a book review by Eleanor White on the topic, click here.

For example, the perpetrators (who always have access to their targets' homes) may sometimes come into the house while the target is out and move things around a little bit. The target has the feeling that something is wrong, but can't quite put his/her finger on what has changed. This is a clear illustration that this activity is a psychological game of cat and mouse, and has little to do with any overt kind of damage that may be caused (such as burning someone's house down or stealing valuables).

In some cases, the target doesn't know s/he is being targeted. It just looks as though the world is full of very rude people, and everything s/he owns breaks constantly ("bad luck"). According to Lawson, the perpetrators don't need the target to know s/he is targeted in order to fill the need within themselves that they are in control.


EXAMPLES OF ACTIVITIES


Garbage being strewn on the target's front lawn repeatedly. Not huge amounts of garbage, but, for example, one thing every day - candy wrappers, tin cans, coffee cups etc.


Gang symbols, often with a satanic link, such as a pentagram, appearing near the target's house.


Antagonistic behaviors from people when the target is on foot, such as giving the target the finger, or similar hand gestures.


Cars parked outside the target's house, often with people inside doing apparently nothing. In one incident which occurred recently to me, a limosine was parked outside my house (directly in front of an elementary school) with the driver inside and the engine running. I was crossing the street from my house to go to the school and had my back to the limo driver, but I could hear him turning the car in a U turn very quickly. As I climbed the steps to the school, I heard the driver honk. When I turned around, he was giving me the finger as he drove away. Note: the car was parked when I left my house, and it drove away after I giving me the finger. What was he doing there parked? Evidently he was waiting to give me the finger. Only two days later, a teenager walking along the street held his hand up in front of my face and wiggled his fingers to get my attention. When I looked at him, he too gave me the finger.


Another activity is having neighbours leave and arrive at the same time as the target. The other day I left the house on foot and a woman was rounding the corner near my house. We were walking towards one another, and I crossed the street wanting to put some distance between myself and her (on some level we often sense when a person is a perp before they do the overt behavior). Without missing a beat, she immediately crossed the road as well (the timing felt as though she was mirroring me because I crossed quite suddenly and she followed in a sudden jerking sort of way). There was nothing on the side of the street I crossed to except the school (which she walked past), so there was no reason to behave like that. I found this slightly aggressive, but thought nothing of it until I was walking back home 15 minutes later and there she was again in front of my house, walking towards me on the same side of the road, but from the opposite direction. Victims report this kind of behavior repeatedly - including the mirroring behavior.


A common occurrence is to have people staring at the target in a leering or mocking way - usually with a smirk on their faces. This is not one incident in a blue moon, but several incidents during a single day.


Targets have reported having people say things to them that refer far too specifically to something within their lives. For instance, I was recently discussing with various people the possibility of counselling targets, since I have training in counselling. While I was out at a movie, someone said loudly as I walked by, "You can counsel me any time!" One target said that she had been talking to her daughter on the phone about the magnets that are inside a fridge when she received a phone call from an unknown stranger who said to her, "So, you have magnets in your fridge". Another target reported that a complete stranger knew her dog Dusty's name and said under his breath in a menacing, barely audible way, "I would rather have Dusty". This is a highly effective way of letting the target know s/he is somehow under surveillance without actually doing anything illegal.


MANY targets report that their animals either seem to get very sick and die of unknown causes, or they are directly murdered (i.e. with a weapon). In each case, the target has left the animal on it's own and returned to a very sick or dead animal.


People nearby behaving in an absurd manner. Targets report that they get "crazies" coming up and yelling at them. In my case I see 55 year old caucasian men dressed like 13 year old boys-in-the-hood, wearing HUGE baggy jeans, and swaggering by. It is an absurd sight if you happen to notice that the person dressed like this has gray hair. Unnerving the target and drawing attention to themselves is the name of the game.


Intense harrassment while driving - all the rude gestures you can think of on the road, except it happens every single time the target goes out. This includes tailgating, being cut off, and other hostile gestures.


Targets report that perpetrators have tried to run them off the road. This also has been my experience. "Normal" people don't get drivers coming up behind them very fast and then slamming on the breaks while fishtailing behind the target. When this happened to me (late last year), I called 911 on my cell phone and the driver came up beside me and tried to side-swipe me while I was on the phone with the police! After almost running into me several times, he gave me the finger (once again) and drove off.


Placing people in strategic locations to "watch" the target. One target reports having people dressed in specific "colors" as a signal of who they are. This is not much different than the old men dressed like boys. It is a subtle way of getting the target's attention. However, it doesn't take the target very long to be able to spot the perpetrators before the behaviors occur. In some cases, there is an air of cockiness about them that is often accompanied by direct eye contact - think of the boys (a.k.a. demons) with the hockey sticks in the movie "Dogma" and you get a sense for the way these people carry themselves. This is not always the case - there is also the case like the woman mirroring me on the street who had a blank, zombie-like expression on her face. This is more common when direct actions are taking place so that the target doesn't know for sure if this is a perpetrator or just one of those incidents that will happen every so often that are unrelated. The cocky expressions usually accompany staring without any overt behavior. By keeping actions subtle, the target is kept confused and doubting themselves and their sanity.


Many targets report repeated problems with their cars and other machinery. When my car was still new, with only 50,000 km on it, I had to have the engine taken apart at a cost of $2,400. It was, oddly enough, about 1 month out of warranty when this happened.


Many targets have suspected that "fake" service people have been sent to their homes. In one victim's case, she had more than just a suspicion after the following incident. She reports having scheduled to have her windows cleaned by a company that she had used in the past. When the company phoned and said they were going out of business and could they send another company in their stead, she felt apprehensive but agreed. When the people came to her house, they began an elaborate game of trying to "psych" her out by telling her that a woman was passed out in her back yard. This made no sense to her, so she didn't respond to them. After several more attempts to have her go into her back yard, she then overheard them talking about how to kill her. When she picked up the phone to call the police the "window washers" fled.


Crowding and mobbing a person when they're out, i.e. having people enter the person's "personal space". I recently had this problem when I started aerobics classes. Someone in the class was getting far too close to me, i.e. within a few inches of me, moving as much as 10 feet across the room to follow me. When I asked her to give me some room, she said, "You move!" After I moved, she moved away from where she had been crowding me leaving a 20 foot gap, but as soon as I moved back there, she immediately moved back as well. It was a subtly hostile, passive/aggressive kind of behavior that resembled the modus operandi (MO) of the perps.


Destruction or theft of items that are of sentimental value to the target. For example, I don't wear any jewelry except a sapphire ring that my father gave me many years ago. One day the ring disappeared and I never saw it again.


Targets often struggle with health problems - extreme fatigue, dizziness, headaches, abdominal pain and muscle pain. Although the stress may be the only reason, there may be other factors involved, including an electronic component to the harassment. If you think this is the case, see electronic harassment.


"Brighting" - a tactic of ritual abuse as well as torture. This involves shining bright lights on the target - either from oncoming cars or from neighbouring houses. Since I became aware that I was being stalked, in every single place I have stayed (three including my own house which I fled), there has been a neighbouring house with a spotlight that was directed towards my bedroom window. In one case, I knew that the neighbour was definitely not a perpetrator. However, all that is necessary is for someone to re-aim the lights outside someone's house - the perp doesn't actually have to be living there. Also, if I am walking home after dark, 9/10 times a car will be parked on the street (in the same spot every time) with the lights on and facing me. It will drive away as I near the car.


Crowding or mobbing using cars. I've experienced this on foot when walking home, there will be an exhorbitant number of cars on one small side street which I walk down. It has happened so many times that it is no longer a coincidence. The last time I was walking along that street, my son was with me and it was close to 11 p.m. on a Wednesday night. Without my ever having mentioned my own suspicions, my son said, "There sure are a lot of cars around here for so late at night". We were on the suspect side street when he said it. (The side street had a dead end, and all the cars went towards the dead end. I never watched to see exactly what they did when they got there. I will have to next time.) Other people experience this while in their car - some have reported being surrounded by a convoy of cars.
Many of the above activities are mentioned in David Lawson's book Terrorist Stalking in America.

Also, see two Toronto Star articles on extremist group vigilante type behavior which follows the same model as described above. [Note: the Toronto Star is a mainstream respected newspaper].

There are other behaviors as well, and I will add to the list as I remember them, or as people email me with other behaviors that I have not included.


HOW WE CAN FIGHT THIS

The only way to fight this is by getting together and supporting one another. By keeping the victims isolated, the perpetrators have little fear of their activities being discovered. But together we have strength. Little by little we can raise the awareness in the public that this is happening. In therapeutic circles this is called "normalizing". That is what happens when someone says, "It's OK for you to say you are being gang stalked because it is taking place". In other words, something considered "abnormal" by a skeptical public is made "normal" by the weight of our testimonies. Like women who once were too ashamed to tell people that they had been raped because it carried a serious social stigma, people who are gang stalked are seen as immediately crazy without being given the benefit of the doubt. What will give us the credibility and acknowedgement that we have a right to is the "normalization" of the idea that gang stalking happens.

There is a risk in networking because of the nature of the perpetrators to overwhelm victims, but we can't let that stop us. Otherwise, we may wait a very long time to be believed, if ever.

There is an online forum created by Eleanor White (http://www.multistalkervictims.org). Eleanor is a dedicated activist who works relentessly to get the word out to people that this is happening. Please see her site for the instructions to join the forum. On my other site Electronic Harassment: http://www.eharassment.ca, I have created a victim's network to help people network with one another. Almost all victims of electronic harassment are also victims of gang stalking. I'm not sure how much the reverse is true. I've spoken to many victims of both.

If you would like to email me your comments, suggestions, etc., send email to: liza@gangstalking.ca.


ACKNOWLEDGEMENS

Thank you Jesus for giving me the strength, direction and conviction to fight these people, one day at a time.

Thank you to all the activists who have come before me and made the road a little smoother for others to pass.

Thank you to the first victims who bravely endured ridicule, mental institutions and worse, because they were alone without the internet, never knowing there were others who were also targeted.

Thank you to those who have only encouraged me and cheered me on as I got my feet wet in this "activist" thing.


Site Still Under Construction - Input Welcome
(Next Topic: Activism suggestions.)

See Also:

Multi-Stalker Victims: http://www.multistalkervictims.org

Silent Holocaust: http://www.silentholocaust.ca

Electronic Harassment: http://www.eharassment.ca

Stop Covert War: http://www.stopcovertwar.com
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Spies Agents Perps Subvert The Internet on Message Boards

by Provocative1 Saturday, Aug. 21, 2004 at 6:18 AM

Fri Aug 20, 2004 13:00


Btw , several members of Liberty Forum are majory
involved in something called "PLAN DAISY"
which is the Internet Branch of this Government Attempt
to Silence Dissent, and to Discredit Posts

So, just see the links and avoid trying to read replies
Especially those of Ombudsman
but if you do you will SEE
and the others as well
ok here are the links to the Exposing and Outing of the Agents of Plan Daisy




Leading Libertarian Forum Censors Expose of Zionazi Web Cabal
http://www.muslimamerica.net/lf/plandazy.htm

LF Member secretly tracks, records, and shares user information in violation of user privacy
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Board=ll_chat&Number=911665&t=-1#Post911665

The ' Exposer ' gets exposed .............Re: LF Member's autogenerated server logs expose liars and


USS Liberty Court of Inquiry Forum - Plan Daisy II: Covert Floor Parties On The Web
http://usslibertyinquiry.com/forums/showthread.php?t=356

To dismiss the contention as "tin foil" and deny it, to malign the illumination and proof of it, to argue "spirit of privacy" when it's no privacy intrusion at all but exposure of explicitly public conduct ~ all these are injury to our children's children's children. It's merely hiding the tools, stealing them.

Like with Plan Daisy ~ eleven people pretending to be one abusive, raucous, profane troll at Liberty Forum for a few months, looking like some superJew troublemaker.

Hmmm ... what have I actually exposed here? Who benefits? Is it everybody?

Its quite a few
Among them are Daisy , Ombudsman,
Kudzu, and several others
Watch how they troll the posts
and label people " Kooks, Stoners, Tinfoil Hat"
among other things, and they deliberately attack peoples family, children, and threaten their children as well,
ESPECIALLY Ombudsman


Edited by provocative1 on 08/20/04

SEE THIS !!!

http://www.libertyforum.org/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=news_government&Number=292874693&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part=&vc=
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I am a major model

by Mysterious and spooky Saturday, Aug. 21, 2004 at 9:23 AM

I am a major model...
moronmachine.jpgn3bd4x.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

I am a major model
Of a modern schizophreniac,
I know the stalker call signs,
and the secret handshakes
of these maniacs,
I've info on their hideouts,
and connections all historical
And photos documenting them
in order categorical.

He has photos documenting them
in order categorical!
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Orange County is full of 'em!

by Cruiser Saturday, Aug. 21, 2004 at 10:08 AM

See these decals here a lot (I live in Irvine) always wondered what the heck was up, now we know. Half of the people driving these cars, do you ever notice how some of them look like zombies, no expression, blank stare, 'night of the living dead', ha!

Cool page, am bookmarking it, and telling others to check it out.

Maybe I'll contribute some pics, I have a digital camera too.

Mind control lives, baby is right! Probably CIA is behind some of this shit.

Keep up the good work.
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Stop talking to yourself

by Mysterious and spooky Saturday, Aug. 21, 2004 at 10:10 AM

Stop talking to yourself.

Don't make me post that pic again.
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KEEP POSTIN' DAVID: YOUR POSTS ARE WORKING...

by Jolly North and his Goss/Singlaub Blow Up Dol Saturday, Aug. 21, 2004 at 6:13 PM

Hey, D & G and Duck Twacy:

We know who these spamming goons are so don't be phased by them. You guys are doing something good. Keep postin' your stuff. Let them try to keep up by changing their decals all the time not to be so obvious.

I know they are doing it too because there's a white pick up on my street some punk drives, that had the firemen's hat decal and a flower on it - until last week, suddenly, they took them off, and replaced them with one AAA decal. Now what does that tell you? YOUR POSTS ARE WORKING.

They are getting popped and burned by what you've put up here. Cops are watching. Sheriffs are watching.

Obviously, some goons are pissed enough to where they've trotted out their little mind control whores to spam your posts. DARPA sheep fucks, drugged out pimps and mobbed up bangers, don't let them phase you guys one bit. KEEP POSTIN MAN.

Don't worry, just start new pages and keep spreading it all over the web. Your fans will find them and so will the law enforcement guys who are hunting down the stalkers.

YOU GUYS KICK ASS.
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Plate Dump and Today, Raiders Decals Were the Rage

by Duck Twacy Friday, Aug. 27, 2004 at 5:19 PM

I noted all the perps I picked up on today mostly had Raiders decals on their rigs. INCLUDING (don't gag on this one, guys) an old grandma driving a Florida plated white mini van, with a Raiders decal, and a Jack in the Box antennea ball. Of course there was the one spook driving the Toyota Camry down Harbor, old white guy. He really blew it, did something really stupid, that blew his cover. He must have been one of the "handlers" of a "cell" or "pack" of these cretins. You know, some ex NSA goon or DARPA droid who's had one too many lobotomies, and listened too long to and beleived too much of Ollie North and Ted Shackley.

The good news is that LE is crawling all over these guys right now and it appears the perps can't really figure out who they are because they have better "means and ways", shall we say.

Time for another plate dump:

These had Raiders decals on them along with some other sticker(s):

4JRY730, 4ATV348, 5D91418, Florida H83ZQT (USMC - another Singlaub groupie, no doubt....).

3 FAW250 had the Chopper cross and the "family" decal and was driven by a mexican female. Blue mini van.

Firemen's helmets: 6J50262, CASOLCO.

Yeah, let's hear it for those "firemen". Yeah, right. What bogus crap.
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"PS - i liked the paranoia spoofs."

by Max Saturday, Aug. 28, 2004 at 1:38 PM

Thanks. Those were mine. I know my loonies, and I recognize whackos when I see 'em. See, this guy here is a loon ... GUH-GAWK! Not like out sheepdog, KPC, or whomever. They may seem crazy, but really they're just bitter indignant socialists, not quite full blown nutsos. At least not yet. But I'm working on it.
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right wingers should take a break too

by more rational Saturday, Aug. 28, 2004 at 2:07 PM

Max, y'all should take a break too.

This is a LEFT WING PINKO COMMIE ANARCHO WEBSITE. We're supposed to be carrying on pointless debates about Nader versus Kerry here. We're supposed to insult right wing morons and racists here. That means you, Bush Fellator, the texan wanker, and randy grant the dumbest guy at ucla are just being disruptive jerkoffs distracting us from our nonstop infighting.

I don't go on conservative sites to give hell to the greedy jackasses and dittoheads, so please extend us the same courtesy. Besides, it's like a sick 700 Club mutual jerkoff club on some of those sites. I bet they're figuring out ways to excuse Abu Ghraib again. The white supremacist sites are even worse. Half the people there seem to have some hidden sex fetish for black guys (and I don't mean the female half either). Gag me with a spoon. I loved the sushi I had for lunch, but don't want to taste it twice.

Be like fresca and get a life away from the screen. (I know I try!)

Angrily yours,

more rational
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I'm insulted.

by Max Saturday, Aug. 28, 2004 at 2:13 PM

I've recently embraced anarcho-capitalism as my new found ideology. Welcome me to your fold!
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' Not like out sheepdog'

by Sheepdog Saturday, Aug. 28, 2004 at 3:03 PM

Always capitalize my nick. Always address me in the first person.
Stop being a bugger.
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Is that how you embrace fellow anarchists?

by Max Saturday, Aug. 28, 2004 at 4:30 PM

Strange way of showing your solidarity! Let's debate the virtues of unrestrained capitalism, unimpeded by the pestilence of goverment, privitazation of everything from law enforcement to education to the military! anarcho-capitalism! Individual property rights and free markets for everybody! Let freedom ring!
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no wait

by Sheepdog Saturday, Aug. 28, 2004 at 5:44 PM

more like a stereotype Kata. Not to bad as it goes... short and idiotic.
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I just thought we could put our differences aside.

by Max Sunday, Aug. 29, 2004 at 6:24 AM

And embrace our similarities. I'm an anarchist just like many of you. I just have a slightly different vision. I want to abolish gubiment because it overregulates business and property rights. I don't like paying tax. Isn't that a valid form of anarchism too?
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Self Identified "Raiders Girl," Admits Sabotage:

by DavidVGoliath Sunday, Aug. 29, 2004 at 7:26 AM
coljhsmith@hotmail.com

Self Identified &quo...
ballysraidersgirlselfidentified.jpgpdypk7.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

This young lady stated to me explicitly, upon being directly questioned by myself, that she is a member of the "Raiders," and that they are responsible for sabotaging the scales in the men's locker room at Bally's Total Fitness on El-Centro between Hollywood and Sunset Boulevards.

She is an employee of Car Park Inc., formerly Barnard's Parking Service: 17277 Ventura Blvd., Suite 200, Encino, CA 91316; Allan Rice president (800) 499-7275. She is usually working the rear gate at Bally's Hollywood at 9am, when I am leaving

Gotta say one thing; they're certainly proud of what they do, but; apparently not that bright individually...

Bon Appetit, David.....
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Cleansing the world of leftist sin

by Walker, Texas Plumber Sunday, Aug. 29, 2004 at 2:14 PM

" This is a LEFT WING PINKO COMMIE ANARCHO WEBSITE. We're supposed to be carrying on pointless debates about Nader versus Kerry here."

>>>> Just trying to bridge the digital divide. Jesus said, "Go where the sinners are." Why should we righties preach to the choir when so many lefties are in desperate need of facts and such?

>>>> There are young, unfettered hungry minds at these anarcho-whatever sites. They hunger for truth, which they will not find here except from conservative posters. No young person is going to learn how to think critically, work hard, save money; in other words live in a free and capitalistic society from bitter hippies who nonetheless want to leech off the spoils a wealthy society provides...wealth which they have fought tooth and nail from anyone creating, wealth which benefits the poor and rich alike.

>>>> Your voice is sorely needed here, lefty, don't get me wrong. As things come down to the wire, a lot of Naderites and other weirdos are folding up their tinfoil hats and planning to vote for Kerry. We're trying to keep that from happening. The whackos should stick with voting for the ghosts of Stalin and Marx.

>>> The beatings will continue around here, as proven by us asylum cellmates. Nice to see others carrying the slack when I'm away on CIA missions.

Happily Yours,

WALKER
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you're an insulting cretin, walker

by more rational Monday, Aug. 30, 2004 at 12:19 PM

Walker, you're an insulting cretin with no social grace. Maybe in real life, you're polite, but on here, you perform the rhetorical equivalent of squatting, shitting in your hand, and flinging the turd at hard-working activists.

As far as I'm concerned, in the context of this particular forum, you're the ethical equivalent of the neo-nazi scum who occasionally post garbage on this site, trawling for angry young people looking to lash out at any form of authority. Your techniques of attack are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. You're the bully who kicks down the sandcastle.

The reason isn't because of you. (In real life, maybe you aren't the maladjusted loser you play online.) The reason is context.

Within the context of IMC, the distinctions between Marxism, neo-Marxism, anarchism, anti-authoritarianism, poststructuralism, power, and other things matter to one segement of the readership. We're interested in issues of governance, history, elections, and other political topics. Obviously, you're not interested in these things (at least not from a Leftist perspective).

To you and some others, we're all one bogeyman - you really don't care about what we care about, or care about us as people. You're just lashing out at some "enemy". Your behavior encourages us to treat you in kind. You're presence is equivalent to that of a drunk boor at a party -- you think you're part of the party, but everyone is waiting for you to be kicked out.
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anarcho-capitalism isn't anarchism

by more rational Monday, Aug. 30, 2004 at 1:46 PM

Max,

Anarchism questions or outright rejects the idea of private property. Some forms of anarcho-capitalism agree, but, the current vogue is libertarianism, which holds private property rights as "sacred".

Most people who call themselves anarchists also disagree vehemently with libertarians on the role of social welfare. Anarchists tend to see the entire purpose of society as creating systems of governance to create a mutual aid society, where a lot of people are involved in social welfare. Libertarians want to turn social welfare into a profit center, or encourage the development of slums. :-) (OK, some anarchists encourage slums too.) They don't really want to deal with social welfare, and are concerned more with gun rights and the right to protect private property, and to operate markets.

At another level, there's a disagreement about economics. Anarchists tend to accept the labor theory of value, and focus on the costs of production. Libertarians are classical, and focus on the exchange value, or price.

Where they do agree is that systems of governance should be open, small, local, and transparent. They oppose war, and don't like cops (unless they're fake anti-authoritarians). They also tend to distrust business authority, and often operate micro businesses or semi-commercial projects.

There's also a tendency in both -isms to become apologists for assholes on each side. Anarchists become apologists for state run socialism or old-fashioned Marxism. Libertarians become apologists for corporate imperialism and war.

A moderated anarchism is participatory democracy. A moderated libertarianism is progressive republicanism. These are minority positions in each party at this time, unfortunately. That's why the Green Party and the Libertarian Party exist, and why their platforms are so similar.

There's a new strain coming up here and there that I've noticed. It's got no name, but, the fact that the last big SF protest was called "Reclaim the Commons" says something right there. The idea of the commons, or the common wealth, is old, and it's making a comeback.
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more rational

by Max Tuesday, Aug. 31, 2004 at 6:55 AM

From what I could make of your proceeding post, you marginalized anarcho-capitalism, prefering instead to address libertarianism. And then you followed up by discussing how anarchists prefer their "systems of governance". Isn't that a false oxymoron? Anarchist government?

What it looks to me that you've done is to summarily dismiss anarcho-capitalism as a valid form of anarchism in order to proclaim anarcho-socialism to be the one true form of anarchy.

Tell me more about anachism's systems of governance! For instance, if true anachism reject the individual's right to own private property, how would one handle, say, someone hopping in his car without permission, hotwiring it and driving off?

Libertarianism, although in vogue on the right wing, is not the same as anarcho-capitalism. Just the same as admonish us right-wingers for categorizing all sub-species of marxists, socialists, communists, etc. as liberals or leftists, you've done the exact same thing here. Just because your accepted worldview of anarchism does not match mine, it does not make anarcho-capitalism any less valid.

By that token, the accepted worldview of anarchy in general is chaos. Most people consider anarchists as nihilistic. Would you argue against the predominating world view of anarchism?
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You COULD start your own post, you know.

by Ann R Key Tuesday, Aug. 31, 2004 at 7:12 AM

Post pics and plates, or beat it, Fidel.

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"start your own post"

by Max Tuesday, Aug. 31, 2004 at 7:51 AM

Well, it didn't look like anyone was really using this thread for anything important. Looks like a perfectly legitimate place to have a frivalous discussion on the merits of anarchy to me!
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THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT

by Duck Twacy Tuesday, Aug. 31, 2004 at 8:54 AM

Think Twice Before you Support your Local Firemen:

ARE THEY SUPPORTING DOMESTIC TERRORISTS, OR INVOLVED WITH CULTS, NARCOTICS TRAFFICKERS AND GANG STALKING?

We’ve been watching THEM stalk us, and several others for too long now, and so we’re FIGHTING BACK. We’ve started putting their MUG SHOTS AND LICENSE PLATES up all over the INTERNET for EVERYONE TO SEE:

Actual photos, perp descriptions, incident reports and license plates uploaded daily at the WEBSITES LISTED BELOW. A majority have the firemen’s CSFA hat logo decals on their cars. WONDER WHY?

http://newswire.indymedia.org/fr/newswire/2004/08/807703.shtml

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/newswire/2004/05/803105.shtml

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/newswire/2004/07/805900.shtml

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/115326.php

http://newswire.indymedia.org/fr/newswire/2004/08/807703.shtml

MORE REFERENCE SOURCES:
http://www.gangstalking.ca & http://www.scientologytoday.org/corp/rtc1.htm

FROM http://WWW.GANGSTALKING.CA:

“…Fire Fighters: Firemen, The [deleted on request] State Firemen's Association icon of a firehat, was on every car that did stalking and endangerment on local roads, and in parking lots, In the beginning months. It was the icon without a particular city, which I was told by their association means they were part time or volunteer. The Association told me there is no way for other people to get those icon stickers, whether I believe that or not is a question. Someone could have stolen (or borrowed) thier icons (for the purpose of misidentification) or could have used their cars.”

“…….The firemen's association, whom I contacted in [deleted on request], did return my letter with a follow up phone interview. There had been 'fireman association sticker hats' on each of the cars in front and back of me, during several months of stalking and reckless endangerments. That changed to cars with no license plates (new cars) and no identifiable stickers, after I spoke of the stalking at the stores where other forms of both stalking and harrassment had been happened. In the phone interview with the firemen's association locally, I could tell others were listening in the office, (there was noise of muffled speaking in the background) dispite his saying he was alone in his office for confidentiality, which he offered, I had not asked.
You have to be very careful what you imply when informing a group about illegal activities involving their logo or stickers. My statements to the firemen's association were that some group, using their stickers, were doing it, I was merely warning them that either the firemen's kids, someone who had stolen stickers, or their vehicles, was perptrating the crimes against me, and that they should be aware of it.”
“It all was really much more complex than outlined here, but I figured no one was going to do anything, so I would, a great defense is a good offense. I kept track of everything, and so it panned out. I only used the remote viewing to see though my own lack of certainty, and to link people together, and to see inside homes where during meditations, I followed (something) backwards to those homes…..”
Who are these people, and what are they REALLY doing? http://www.csfa.net/

“THE CSFA DECAL: Proudly display the CSFA decal on your automobile, identifying yourself both as a member of California's oldest and largest fire service organization and as a member of our highly regarded profession.”

“Highly regarded?” Oh, really?
“STRENGTH IN NUMBERS: For more than 75 years the California State Firefighters' Association has been the largest fire service organization in California. With 28,000 members, CSFA represents all elements of the fire service.”
“THE CSFA PARTNERSHIP: The benefits enjoyed by the fire service family today would not exist if it were not for the vigilant watch and action by all firefighters and their families. As CSFA members, you are in partnership with all other firefighters throughout California in support of issues important to the fire service, our families, and to lifesaving in our communities.”
Just WHAT and WHO are they watching so vigilantly?
REPORT ALL SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY TO YOUR LOCAL POLICE AND SHERIFFS DEPARTMENTS - MANY OF THEM ARE AWARE OF THIS AND DO NOT LIKE IT OR SUPPORT IT! TAKE DIGITAL PHOTOS. TAKE DOWN LICENSE PLATES AND DESCRIPTIONS. DEMAND ANSWERS AND ACCOUNTABILITY FROM YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND THE CSFA. THIS IS ILLEGAL ACTIVITY AND WE CAN STOP IT IF ENOUGH OF US COUNTER THEM WITH TOTAL EXPOSURE OF THEIR TACTICS AND TRADECRAFT WITH NON-STOP DOCUMENTATION AND AGGRESSIVE COUNTERSURVEILLANCE AND COUNTERMEASURES. FIGHT BACK.

CONCERNED VICTIMS AND CITIZENS NEED TO CALL AND WRITE THE CALIFORNIA FIREMEN’S ASSOCIATION AND ASK THEM WHAT IS GOING ON. ASK THEM WHO IS BEHIND THIS. ASK THEM WHY.


http://www.csfa.net/ CONTACT NAMES AND ADDRESSES BELOW:



Association Mailing Address:
CSFA
2701 "K" Street, Suite 201
Sacramento, CA 95816
Toll Free: (800) 451-2732
Fax: (916) 446-9889
Email: crainey@csfa.net
For Web site related assistance, please email webmaster@csfa.net

Sacramento Staff
General Manager
Lynn Hall Shannon
Lshannon@csfa.net
Webmaster
Monty Gearhart
webmaster@csfa.net

Membership Coordinator
Janet Sueoka
JSueoka@csfa.net
Legislative Advocate
Afrack Vargas
avargas@csfa.net

Office Assistant
Colleen Rainey
CRainey@csfa.net
Editor
Gary Giacomo
Ggiacomo@csfa.net

Bookkeeper
Rhonda Sudderberg
Rsudderberg@csfa.net
Chaplain
Mon. John S. Sammon
msgr.jsammon@rcbo.org

Historian
Dan. M Mann
dandjmann@mailstation.com


President and Board of Directors
President
Jeff Sedivec
JSSedivec@csfa.net

Northern Director
Patt Wyckoff
pwyckoff@csfa.net
Northern Director
Wade Harrison
wharrison@csfa.net

Central Director
Mike Gill
Mgill@csfa.net
Central Director
Steve Silvius
Ssilvius@csfa.net

Southern Director
Ed Foster
Efoster@csfa.net
Southern Director
Chuck Knapp
Cknapp@csfa.net

Southern Director
Victor Gonzales
vgonzalez@csfa.net
Southern Director
Ken Wuchner
kwuchner@csfa.net


Northern Deputy Directors
THOMAS COLE
J. MARK FREDERICK
VERN LOSH III
JAMES C. SAUNDERS
RICH BATES
JIM SONSTENG
FRED WYCKOFF


Central Deputy Directors
DICK BROWN
PAUL CUTINO
REX IANSON
GARY J. PIRKIG

PEPPER SMITH
WILLIAM CALLAWAY
ROBERT C. HENRY
ROBERT JOHNSON

PATRICIA JOHNSON
SEAN A. JOHNSON


Southern Deputy Directors
ROBERT D. ASHLEY
MICHAEL WILLIAMS
MICHAEL D. ESPARZA
TRAVIS ESPINOZA

RYAN HANIFY
DALE LINTNER
BRIAN WOODBECK
PETER A. LIEBIG

HOWARD RAYON
HARRY C. SEIFERT
JOSH WILSON
STEVE WILSON

JAMES J. ALTMAN
REYNOLD T. DONG
BILL FOLTZ
ROBERT FRANCK

DENNIS E. FRAZIER
JOE JACKSON
BILL MESSERSMITH
MANNY ROSALES

MICHAEL MC LAUGHLIN


Firefighters Legislative Action Group (FLAG)
Chair
WILLIAM CALLAWAY
San Luis Obispo F.D. (Retired) 1363 Oakwood Ct.
San Luis Obispo, CA 93401 Res: (805) 543-1355
Bus: (805) 549-9630
FAX: (805) 549-8974
Pgr: (805) 541-7597
e-mail: wildbillsbbq@aol.com
pacwesttre@aol.com


Committee Members
MIKE CROMER
Visalia FD 1947 W Oriole Ave
Visalia, CA 93291 Res: (559) 735-0106
Bus: (559) 713-4239
e-mail: firemikec@cs.com

SCOTT CULKIN
Lakeside F.P.D. 479 N. Cuyamaca St.
El Cajon, CA 92020 Res: (619) 588-6351
Bus: (619) 443-6588
e-mail: scoculk@cox.net

MIKE DIAZ
Escondido F.D. PO Box 1621
Escondido, CA 92033 Assn: (760) 746-7990
FAX: (619) 427-5459
Mobile/Pgr: (877) 570-0344
e-mail: mdiaz@csfa.net

J. MARK FREDERICK
Penn Valley F.P.D. (Retired) 10680 Devonshire Cir.
Penn Valley, CA 95946 Res/FAX (530) 432-1739
e-mail: reconflag@jps.net

GENE GANTT
Benicia F.D. 613 Hawk Dr.
Vacaville, CA 95687 Res: (707) 451-3262
Bus: (707) 746-4275
e-mail: FishingGG@aol.com

RICHARD WATKINS
Bakersfield FD (retired) 4201 McKelvey Ct.
Bakersfield, CA 93308-1253 Res/FAX: (661) 392-0757
e-mail: rwatkins@bak.rr.com

JAMES KIRKPATRICK
Lakeside FPD 10415 Nubbin Ct.
Santee, CA 92071-1975 Res: (619) 258-7600
Bus: (619) 443-6588
FAX: (619) 258-7699
e-mail: jimk2000@aol.com

Legislative Field Representatives
DON DONNELLY
Los Angeles Co FD (retired) 702 Inverness Dr.
Rancho Mirage, CA 92270 Res: (760) 321-2280
FAX: (760) 770-3360
email: dldgolf@aol.com

RICHARD FULFER
Sacramento City FD/Placer Hills FPD PO Box 112
Meadow Vista, CA 95722 Res: (530) 878-1645
email: fulfer@infostations.com

JEFF JANZEN
Costa Mesa FD 846 S Dune St
Anaheim, CA 92806-4828 Mobile: (714) 742-6367
FAX: (714) 258-7699
e-mail: jbjanzen@aol.com

CLYDE JOHNSON
Los Angles City FD (retired) PO Box 496
Bass Lake, CA 93604 Res: (559) 642-3863
email: johnfam@sti.net

GLENN D. SMITH
Los Angeles Co FD 1118 Oakheath Dr.
Harbor City, CA 90710 Res: (310) 530-2300
Bus: (310)419-2198
e-mail: smithgam@earthlink.net





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max

by more rational Tuesday, Aug. 31, 2004 at 12:33 PM

I lump together anarcho-capitalism and libertarianism because I keep running across libertarians (online) who call themselves anarcho-capitalists. The only well known person I've read who's considered an anarchist but isn't against private property is Proudhon, and even he advocated limits to capital accumulation.

What's your position on the accumulation of capital, debt, etc.? Where are you coming from? Are you into Rothbard?

As for anarchy as chaos - on a day-to-day basis, I accept that definition, but for purposes of this discussion, and discussion on this site (which is anarchist or inspired by a specific kind of anarchism) I on using a different definition. I see anarchism as a few different strains that matter a lot today: Stirnirite or individualist, Christian anarchism, anarchist socialism, situationism and different art movements, and ecology/earth/pagan.

Right now, though, I've done more reading about this guy Henry George, and "geonomics". They're land-tax enthusiasts. I haven't read up on anarchism (the theory at least) for around a half year.

Here's a song that synthesizes some ideas that are Christian anarchist, and maybe peripherally related to George.

World Turned Upside Down
by Billy Bragg

In sixteen forty nine, to St George's Hill
a ragged band they called the Diggers came to show the peoples' will
they defied the Landlords, they defied the laws
they were the dispossessed, reclaiming what was theirs

"We come in peace" they said, to dig and sow
we come to work the lands in common and to make the wastegrounds grow
this earth divided, we will make whole
so it will be a common treasury for all

The sin of property, we do disdain
no man has any right to buy and sell the earth for private gain
by theft and murder, they took the land
now everywhere the walls spring up at their command

They make the laws, to chain us well
the clergy dazzle us with heaven or they damn us into hell
we will not worship, the god they serve
the god of greed who feeds the rich while poor man starve

We work, we eat together, we need no swords
we will not bow to the masters or pay rent to the lords
we are free men, though we are poor
you diggers all stand up for glory stand up now

From the men of property, the orders came
they sent the hired men and troopers to wipe out the Diggers' claim
tear down their cottages, destroy their corn
they were dispersed, but still the vision lingers on

You poor take courage, you rich take care
this earth was made a common treasury for everyone to share
all things in common, all people one
we come in peace, the orders came to cut them down
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anarchism and private property

by more rational Tuesday, Aug. 31, 2004 at 1:27 PM

I think the car question is a good one. In an anarchist society (or my anarchist society), there would be private property, but there would also be limits on it. The limits, though, would often not be on cars, boats, jewelry, or specific objects.

The limit would focus mainly on things like capital accumulation, lending practices, taxation, land use, access to roads, housing, food, etc. (In other words, the things government deals with now.)

I don't really work these things out in my mind too much but, ultimately, if you think about it, cars are less about the object itself than how it's bought and used.

Cars are extremely profitable, partly, because of easy credit. The availability of credit increases the demand, and causes car prices to rise. The loan itself also increase the price of a car substantially. The debt incurred to purchase a car forces people to work, to relinquish some of their freedom to get the car.

It smells like capitalism to me.

Some people might believe they're buying a car to look cool, to be cool, to get laid, to be a good parent, to feel powerful, to feel masculine, or some other equally ethereal quality. Mostly, though, they use the car to get to work.

There's also the cost of protecting the asset. Part of it might be toward an alarm system. Part of it is paid in taxes, to pay for police. Part of it is toward indoor parking, at shopping malls and at home. (A person could live in the garage, but the car is there.)

The solution to car theft is not simple, but it can be done simply: less credit to purchase cars. That would destroy part of the auto business. Cars would be forced to become cheaper econo-boxes and plastic deathtraps :-). People would fix them up more. Also, legal changes to encourage high-density living would obviate the need for cars (most laws on the books prevent increases in density, so repeals would cause density to increase). Rental cars would become more popular. Jitneys would drive people around. Or not. Who knows what will happen.

There's another argument out there about "use" -- anything that's being "used" by you is yours, but if you leave it fallow or unsused, society may claim it. I think this is a little too complicated. How do you define use? If someone is using a car for pleasure, but someone else needs to sleep in it to get out of the rain, I can't say who has the greater right.
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More Rational

by Max Tuesday, Aug. 31, 2004 at 3:36 PM

Those are an awefully numerous number of rules (laws) for someone who calls himself an anarchist. How do your propose to enforce all these rules in your "anarchist" society? I'm assuming you would need law enforcement and a full fledged judicial system, all paid for by taxation?

I'm a bit tired tonight, so I'll respond in more detail tomorrow. But suffice it to say for now, little of what you have proposed thusfar sounds anything like anarchism to me. It sounds much closer to socialism.
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max

by more rational Wednesday, Sep. 01, 2004 at 11:49 PM

It's just a meandering description. The only rule would be a restriction on lending capital for cars. There's already a complete set of laws about this, so it wouldn't increase the laws.

Most of the changes I described are speculations on what would happen if it were harder to buy a car, due to a constriction on the availability of credit.

As for the need for police and government -- there will be some kinds of laws, dispute resolution courts, and police in an anarchist society. There would also be taxes. There would also be money. What would differ is their purpose and operation.

I don't see an anarchist society as a well defined destination, or a utopian ending. It's more like a general direction that society is heading.

In an anarchist society, more people would be aware of the laws, would participate in legal trials, and would probably do some time on the police force. Rather than one full time city hall worker for every (say) 2,000 people, you'd have more community people involved in government, most doing it for free.

More trials would be jury trials, and the juries would be better educated about dispute resolution. When possible, the jury could make recommendations in cases where the situation can be reconciled. More regular people would be involved in law enforcement -- perhaps not as deputies, but as support personnel and neighborhood security.

Beyond this, more people would be involved in the creation of social welfare programs, from teaching and operating libraries, to running rehab centers, and fixing old homes. There would be "soup" kitchens open to all. Housing would be a right.

I envision not a political shift, but a cultural shift.
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Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

by Max Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 2:30 AM

I just don’t see your vision as anarchy. I’m sorry, but that is socialism, pure and simple. You don’t want to do away with government, you want to socialize it, and you just want everybody else to say “Gee, what a wonderful concept!” and lie down and accept that your dream is best and for their own good.

In this regard, I think I am more of an anarchist than you. See, I want smaller government. I want government so small that it’s almost imperceptible. I want to pay zero taxes. Taxes are royalties we pay to elites for the “privilege” to live! How absurd! I will never own my house free and clear, because even after the bank note is paid off, I will always have to pay property tax on it! Forever! And when I die, my spouse gets to pay my death tax! They tax us coming and going! I’m sick of paying taxes!! SICK!

That said, I realize some taxes are necessary. But I am an anarchist. I want them as small as possible. I want them imperceptible.

As far as accumulation of wealth goes, it should be something like this:

Corporations should be limited for a defined period of time, say twenty years, significantly less than the lifespan of an average person. There should be rules and “trust-busters” in place that preclude dynasties of corporations. I don’t think anarcho-capitalism should be carte blanche capitalism or corporate imperialism. In an anarchist society, events are guided more by ethics than they are by law. I think you know that.

For the individual, he or she should have the right to earn and to consolidate as much wealth as possible during his or her lifetime. Upon death, a certain percentage of that earned wealth, up to a maximum ceiling amount, should be allocated to the immediate family to adequately sustain them, which is the primary reason most of us work to begin with. No one wants to die knowing his or her family won’t be taken care of. The remainder of the individual’s wealth would be re-distributed to the community.

I recognize that I do not have all the answers, or may not have any good answers. But I do know what guides me in life. Less government, lower taxes, freedom, civil liberties, the right to do what I like without reprisal as long as it doesn’t adversely effect others, etc.
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uh...sure

by :>) Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 4:32 AM

'but that is socialism' Duh. So you disparrage corporate socialism?
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"disparrage corporate socialism?"

by Max Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 5:27 AM

Yes, I do. Imagine that.

Technically, under anarcho-capitalism, or anarchy in general, there would be no such thing as a "corporation". Corporations are legal entities validated by government. Without government backing, corporations cease to exist.

Of course, that would not stop people from joining in entrepreneurial endeavors to make a profit. I see nothing wrong with that.
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Well damn

by Sheepdog Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 5:37 AM

I'll save that. You may have to abandon your current nick.
In practice, I am a conservative constitutionalist. I believe in systems that work best for everyone are ones that are free from rampant corruption, conflict of interests and general pervasive criminality. Open the books of these entities and let's take a look at the sewage. It needs to be attended to.
:>)
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I'm now a full-fledged Libertarian

by Sheepdog Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 9:40 AM

yes of course.
You individuals want to shift the tax burden into a terribly regressive sales tax. I've heard it all.
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"terribly regressive sales tax"

by Max Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 10:32 AM

Call it a "cultural revolution" if you like. It's a good place to start. Don't wanna pay tax, don't buy anything. Regardless, if you doubled or tripled my sales taxes right now, including those I pay on gas, it still wouldn't compare to those I pay on income, property I own, county/state/federal, real estate, ad valorem, milage taxes, and every other goddam thing these bureaucrats can think to tax me on.

Hey, if it were up to me, I'd privatize everything and do away with taxes completely. But it ain't, so I won't.
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max, tax

by more rational Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 12:22 PM

Dude, do some simple math.

Property tax is 1%.
Sales tax in CA is 8.25% (and people spend around 1/3 of our income on taxable goods).
Fed income tax is 15% or so, more if you make more.
I don't know what the payroll tax is. Self employment tax doubles the tax on Medicare and Social Security. There are a bunch of little taxes, like gas taxes.

Sales taxes are relatively high for people who don't make a lot of money. It can be, effectively 4%. For someone with more income, it will be less, depending on how much they spend compared to how much income they make.

It's not possible to *not* spend money and not pay sales tax, unless you resort to shoplifting or picking things out of the trash. So, the fact remains: the sales tax is regressive. Eliminate the sales tax, and you put money right into the hands of the working class.

If more regular people get involved in governance and civil society, and governments are forced to open their books, taxes can go up, but overall waste can decrease. More eyes on the budget means less waste.
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comment about tax haters

by more rational Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 1:00 PM

They seem really selfish and short-sighted.

I'm also interested in reducing taxes and government, but not by putting the squeeze on poor people. Do it by cutting war spending.

Follow that link below. It's the Coalition Provisional Authority list of contracts awarded. That's courtesy of GW Bush, and a lot of conservative who say bullshit about "less government" but have done a lot to increase government, subcontract parts of it to his cronies, and increase debt.

Every last dollar on that document comes from taxes. The working people of America are paying for this failed war. It's a big fat welfare program for most-favored subcontractors.

That's why I don't take libertarian rhetoric seriously. It's rehashed Republican propaganda.

(I could get started on the Democrats, and how they use grassroots rhetoric duplicitously, but, this is a libertarian debate thread :-) )
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Property taxes 1%??

by Max Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 1:34 PM

Geez, I should move to California. Here in South Carolina it's 6% EVERY YEAR! And we pay property taxes on our homes, our cars, our boats, our motorcycles, our jetskis, our trucks, our vans, our SUVs, anything of value gets taxed. Our sales tax is 6% too. Like I said, double the sales tax and eliminate all the other taxes. At least you'd have some control over sales taxes by bargain shopping or buying less or only what is necessary.

And don't give me that about hurting the poor. It's not a so-called regressive sales tax that hurts the poor, it's a bloated spendthrift government that needs to be cut to the bone that hurts the poor. All that spending on the military and defense contracting you mentioned; we agree there. There's your welfare money right there. The feds are taking money out of the poor's mouth, not the libertarians. We could cut federal tax by half and the government would not miss a beat. We've got city and municipality governemtns, county governments, state and federal governments, how many damned governments do we really need?

Even better, a flat tax might work. The point is, we pay too much tax. I don't claim to have the answers, but what we're doing now takes an aweful lot of money out of my pocket. If it were up to socialists like you, I'd be one of those poor people after being dispossessed fo every last red cent I earned..
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back to corporate fascism

by Sheepdog Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 1:42 PM

you said, Max " The feds are taking money out of the poor's mouth, not the libertarians."
I t's the corporations not the people in majority that run this current government. We need to re-examen their charter and demand that they open their books, both sets,
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No argument.

by Max Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 1:54 PM

You'll get no argument from me there. Corporate bilking is like a night flower. It blooms in the dark and dies in the sunlight.

But that's an epic David vs. Goliath fight to try and pick without first putting a lot of libertarians and some true conservative types in office.
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libertarians and taxes

by more rational Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 2:42 PM

Libertarians aren't taking any tax money at all. Neither are the Greens. :-)

California's got a 1% property tax, and also has a law that prevents the taxes from being re-assessed on older properties that are residences (occupied by old folks). This is the famed Proposition 13.

Because of this, municipalities and counties derive their income from sales and income taxes. Mostly, it's sales taxes for localities, and sales and income for the state. Some areas implement a utility tax (like a capitation tax), and others have a small property or income tax.

The effect, at the local level, is that local governments whore themselves out to corporations, big time, particularly retail developers and auto malls, which bring in big sales tax revenues. Malls after malls after malls for miles -- that's what you get when sales taxes fund everything. And the people are powerless compared to the corporations.

Our schools, which used to be tops in the nation, is always hovering just above the Southern states, which are impoverished by comparison to California.

This is possible in Calif, not because we're liberal, but because the poor tend to not vote, and the rich do. So they shift the tax burden onto the working class. It's a very fiscally conservative state, but this will change as the sheer number of working class people increases.
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Hello from ICE (US Customs)

by Anonymous Thursday, Sep. 02, 2004 at 5:27 PM

We heard about this page and the other ones you guys have started, and a lot of us ICE Agents are coming here specifically to see the pic of the La Migra bashing Calvin and Hobbes decal, which has become rather infamous with ICE and legacy Customs and INS.

That decal has been a hot topic of discussion with ICE and we are also very intrigued with the other pics you have here that definately add up to something, it would appear....

We work the LA Port FYI.

Lot of agents say they've noticed these other decals too - we'll run the La Migra guy's plates for ya, by the way and he'll be getting to know some of us better soon. ;~)

Interesting posts, can't say that I agree with everything here but we definately have noticed the stuff you're documenting around Long Beach and the Port, and we'll start watching for it, and run some plates when we can.

Be safe.
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A New Crop of Photos at a New Page

by Duck Twacy Friday, Sep. 03, 2004 at 5:23 PM

A New Crop of Photos...
img_1049.jpgbt8py4.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

We like to load all of them up at once David so we started (yet another) new page.

Thicker than molasses in January today, they were!

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/09/116544.php

Remember to "enjoy the ride"....

Take particular note in how many firemen have the flower decals on their rigs too. Some kind of cult we got going here? A corrupt union maybe? Some MOB involvement, ya suppose, ACE G MEN?????

;~)

Remember perps to watch out for those bread trucks, white cars, and cable tv and satellite guys. Uh huh.
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Labor Day Pictures of Perps

by Duck Twacy Tuesday, Sep. 07, 2004 at 1:05 PM

Labor Day Pictures o...
img_1075.jpgvmjcjl.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

The latest upload of LA and Orange County perps is here. Happy Labor Day to YOU too.....

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/09/116621.php


http://newswire.indymedia.org/fr/newswire/2004/08/807703.shtml

...."We also ran into a problem with the local Fire and EMS getting the law frequencies in their radio. It was done intentionally so it would be easier for everyone to communicate. It didn't take long for it to be abused. We had a huge drug operation that involved tons of agencies and a chopper. One of the Sgts was out checking one of the local bars and everyone in the bar knew what was going on. Come to find out it was because there had been a couple fire fighters sitting in the bar with their radio turned to the LE channel."

"Another time my husband, who is an officer, ran into the same kind of problem. The firefighters would sit in the legion and keep track of what officer was on and where he was so they wouldn't get pulled over by them on the way home from the bar...."

From an anonymous source.


Archives:

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/newswire/2004/05/803105.shtml

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/newswire/2004/07/805900.shtml

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/115326.php

http://newswire.indymedia.org/fr/newswire/2004/08/807703.shtml

We have some 'silent partners' keeping tabs on these perps too. In fact one of our associates beat us to the punch yesterday following the caucasian female perps in the SUV with the sea turtle and flower decals. They were on them before we took their photo.

Best part is the chicks were clueless as to who it was.


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enough

by Mr. Politeness Man Tuesday, Sep. 07, 2004 at 2:02 PM

Now I Understand the looneytoons with Duck Twacy
Is this the outgrowth of the HLS funding to begin to have neighborhood spies around us all the time? To protect us, for our own good? Besides rudely using up band width with the oversized and poorly executed, often with multiples of the same shot jpegs I think we have another troll. Pure and simple. Yes we need neighborhood involvements but not this speculative hosing of 'reports' about 'bad people ' roaming our streets.
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Who Needs a Fireman's Hat on a New Car so Soon?

by Duck Twacy Wednesday, Sep. 08, 2004 at 4:21 PM

Who Needs a Fireman'...
img_1076.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

Another San Pedro perp who apparently is so concerned that people KNOW she is linked with this crowd, that she had to put her CSFA decal on her NEW SATURN even before she got the plates.

Another give away: the Hawaiian flower print seat covers.

Like hanging clothes in the window. And Big Bear paws. And the lights on trick.

Volkswagens. New cars with paper plates.

Obviously, most of their tradecraft is - albeit all too obvious and frankly, juvenile - over the heads and beyond th comprehension of some visitors to this page....who were probably paid something to spam this site anyhow.

Just shut up, sit back, and ENJOY THE RIDE Pilgrim.
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ELECTION 2004

by David Howard Wednesday, Sep. 08, 2004 at 6:00 PM
fiat@sofnet.com 417-624-4216 or 624-5326 2331 South Duquesne-Joplin, Missouri

Google and type in "Mena cocaine"
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That Same Bunch is Behind All This Too

by Nor Cal Patriot Thursday, Sep. 09, 2004 at 1:46 AM

Who and what do you think finances all this kind of crap? Drug trade - child prostitution - criminal enterprises.

Up here in SF Bay area we have the same stuff going on.

Some of us fake that we have stalled cars in front of fire engines that are trying to bust through traffic. Half the time they are only practicing and not on real emergency runs anyhow. One fireman was caught up here dealing cocaine a few years ago.

These people are scum.

I found this page from all your SF Indymedia posts.
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Betty Boop decal and firemen

by Anonymous Sunday, Sep. 12, 2004 at 11:40 AM

Hi, I just found your posts. Wanted to add that I live in Southern California, and I've noticed this stuff too. Well today, I saw a red SUV go by me, with the betty boop and the firemens helmet. So what you are saying is going on, IS. This must be some kind of cult? I know one fireman, and he's a loser - sleeps around on his wife and drinks. They aren't all heroes is right.



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i thought the flowers were some hawaiian thing

by more rational Sunday, Sep. 12, 2004 at 4:01 PM

I think the flower decals mean "I'm related to people from Hawaii" or something like that.

I think this decal thing is just a trend. I have a couple on my vehicle. (If you know me, they're obvious.) People get them from the mall, at these small kiosks. I bet each kiosk is connected to one person with a cutter machine, some vinyl, and a bunch of graphics they got from the internet.

This isn't an ad, but, here's a link to a bunch of flower decals: http://islandstickers.com/pua/ Let the secret code messages bloom, like a hundred flowers. :-) :-)
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New Additions to Multi Stalking Victims Site

by Duck Twacy Tuesday, Sep. 14, 2004 at 1:01 PM

If any of this is happening to you - start documenting it. Buy a digital camera. Upload your evidence on the web. Do NOT let these corrupt, sick people stop you from having a life. We may not be able to beat them, but we can reverse the tables and turn around and hunt these perps down just like they do to all Patriots and activists.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND START TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON UNDER YOUR NOSE, AMERICANS. The real terrorists are nextdoor....

http://newswire.indymedia.org/fr/newswire/2004/08/807703.shtml

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/09/116621.php

Archives:

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/newswire/2004/05/803105.shtml

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/newswire/2004/07/805900.shtml

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/115326.php

http://newswire.indymedia.org/fr/newswire/2004/08/807703.shtml



NEW Gang Stalking Page: NWO, Firemen, Involved
Mon Sep 13, 2004 19:44
68.105.195.121

New as of September 4, 2004:

GANG STALKING Interview Guide 2004:

Sections:

Bio
Overview
Motives
Tactics
Members
Police

Talking points:

What is gang stalking?
Why do you think the NWO is involved?
How urgent is gang stalking as an issue?
Do any agencies recognize this is happening?
How does gang stalking differ from single stalking?
What age range are gang stalking members?
What are gang stalking activities like?
Is there a book about gang stalking?
Are stalking gangs well off financially?
How long has gang stalking been happening?
What are some gang stalking motives?
What type of attacks do stalking gangs carry out?
How often do attacks occur?
Telling LIES about the target is a prime tactic
Reaction of family and friends
Children of targets are also attacked
Air tight 24/7 surveillance
Neighbors cooperate, voluntarily or by coercion
Gangs surround the target's apartment or home
Noise attacks are common fare
Shadowing everywhere
Blocking of target's car common
Harassment continues at work
Harassment in a retail setting
Nonsensical reasons to knock on target's door
Telephone problems common
Fake wrong numbers
Computer harassment
Breakins: Home, work, car
Mind games: Moving furniture
Mind games: Dumping food
Tradesmen participate
Automobile sabotage
** BIG topic: Electronic harassment
Footsoldier gang members
Unavoidable access gang members
Utility technician gang members
City worker gang members
Police covering up assists gangs
Psychiatrists covering up assists gangs
Courts covering up assists gangs
Low self esteem boosted by membership
Feeling important boosted by city workers
Gang members describe themselves
Police comments to author David Lawson

Top
==========================================================


Eleanor White
430 Cumberland Ave. #312
Hamilton, Ontario
Canada L8M 3M9
http://www.multistalkervictims.org
raven1@nas.net

Eleanor White is a 63 year old retired engineer who,
for the past 8 years has been an activist working to
expose the crime of covert harassment of selected
citizens. One aspect of this covert war on citizens
is gang stalking.

CLOSE COLLEAGUES who are alternate ways to reach me:

Sueann Campbell (anti gang stalking activist)
Round Rock TX
apackrat@gbronline.com
packrat@softhome.net
packrat@650dialup.com
http://www.StopCovertWar.com

Liza Parker (anti gang stalking activist)
Toronto, Ontario Canada
liza@eharassment.ca
http://www.gangstalking.ca

Top
==========================================================
GANG STALKING OVERVIEW:

The systematic corruption of government and quiet
destruction of Constitutional freedoms by the New
World Order has resulted in a growing epidemic of
the crime of "gang stalking". Gang stalking might
be called "Ku Klux Klan for EVERYONE", or, "plain
clothes brownshirts."

While the link between stalking gangs and the New
World Order may not seem established, those of us
who have been on the RECEIVING END of this for
DECADES can tell you that ONLY with the support of
an organization of the power of the NWO could this
activity have become epidemic (one in a hundred
report being targetted). You don't get seamless
cover by every single government agency without
an extremely powerful organization being behind it.

Although government and media are TOTALLY SILENT on
this issue - make no mistake about it, this is one of
the ways being vigorously pursued to destroy what we
are accustomed to calling civilized society, as well
stated by anti gang stalking activist Liza Parker.
This is no exaggeration, as we who are in the trenches
can tell you.

In a recent development, we are finding that womens'
assault services, and some private detective agencies
have extensive knowledge of this crime syndrome and
have had so for some years. We are finding that private
detectives are often well acquainted with this crime.
Rarely, we get police statements that they know but
do not have a solution. This is NOT an imaginary
phenomenon!

Gang STALKING is distinctly different from stalking
by a single stalker. In gang stalking, people who
do NOT KNOW the target perform subtle but highly
effective attacks on the target, usually for reasons
of revenge from someone who has hired the gang, or
for phony reasons given to gang members by their
leaders.

Gang MEMBERS include small children up through seniour
citizens and appear to be entirely normal members of
society.

Gang stalking TACTICS are largely artificial re-
creations of the "normal breaks of life". For
example, a gang stalking target comes out of the
supermarket and finds his/her car is blocked in by a
vehicle with no driver in it. Or comes home and finds
his/her furniture pushed out of place, or clothing
ripped. Or has chronic mail delay, tampering and
loss.

At time of writing, the seminal work on gang stalking
is David Lawson's book "Terrorist Stalking in America"
in which the author describes his experiences as he
infiltrated and rode with some of these gangs in the
United States and Canada. The word "Terrorist" in the
title has nothing to do with foreign terrorists - the
book was copyrighted in 2001 and the word terrorist
seemed like a popular term.

Gang stalking FINANCES are substantial: They always
rent properties adjacent to their targets, for example.

Author David Lawson found that some gangs are actually
financed by corporations. Although he didn't mention
it, it seems likely illegal drugs are another source
of income for these gangs, although stalking gangs are
NOT drug pushers.

Author Lawson states that these stalking gangs began to
get active in the early 1990s. However, some current
day gang stalking targets report gang stalking as far
back as 40 or more years.

Top
==========================================================
GANG STALKING MOTIVES

- REVENGE services for hire by anyone who REALLY wants
to "get back at" someone else
- Retired police officers who harass deadbeat dads
(alimony cases) and pedophiles (admitted ON AIR)
- Victim reported crime where criminal is member of
organized crime, for example, a husband who is a member
of a ring of pedophiles with connections in high places
- Hostile spouse or ex-spouse hires people to harass the
other
- Corporate or government activist or whistleblower
harassment
- Overzealous church groups harass "sinners" to
"straighten them out"
- Overzealous neighbourhood watch-like groups harass
people they believe have criminal records
- Family feuds over inheritance
- Government attempts to unfairly seize land from owners

Top
==========================================================
GANG STALKING TACTICS

Gang stalking tactics range from the childish and stupid
all the way up through advanced electronic invasion of
privacy and attacks on the mind and body. No SINGLE
tactic would be a major problem if it happened only once.

But when these attacks happen around the clock, for years,
like the Chinese water torture, the quality of life of
the target can be ruined to such an extent that some
targets have committed suicide. When "normal breaks" happen
several times a DAY, EVERY day, you're not looking at random
acts.

Here are some examples of gang stalking day to day tactics:

- Destruction of REPUTATION by way of telling lies. This
includes the use of corrupt government officials to
falsely label a target as mentally ill, particularly
when the target is a whistleblower. Common lies are
that the target is a pedophile, prostitute or drug
dealer.

- Destruction of RELATIONSHIPS through telling of lies,
and designing attacks so family, friends, and co-workers
will think the target is crazy.

- Harassment of CHILDREN of targets to increase pressure
on the target. Includes taking children away from
targetted parents if parents complain about the
harassment.

- 24 hour, 7 day SURVEILLANCE. Targets have reported
hearing gang members announce on business band radio that
the target has just turned on his/her lights in the early
morning.

- Enlistment of NEIGHBORS by telling lies about the target,
such as the target is a pedophile, prostitute or drug
dealer. Neighbors who resist are also harassed.

- Rental of properties or apartments on all sides of the
target.

- Making NOISE from adjacent property which the gang either
rents or is given access to by neighbours. Noise is
often TIMED so that it starts when the target goes
outside to enjoy their patio, or when the target opens a
window. Endless fake "work" noise is a common example,
especially from adjacent apartments.

NOTE: Hammering which follows the target as the target
moves from room to room is common. This indicates some
form of through-the-wall radar is in use by the stalkers.

- Shadowing targets in their cars and on foot. An aura
of normalcy is carefully maintained so the target is
unlikely to be believed. Inexplicable rudeness.

- BLOCKING of target's parked car by other vehicles.

- Daily sabotage of the target's WORKPLACE. Not only
outright damage to target's work and work area, but
"silly" things like target's desk or chair being
disassembled overnight, or "mistakenly" piling cargo
in front of the target's office door.

- OCCUPYING TIME of the target at work where the target's
work involves contact with the public. Also making
lots of bogus COMPLAINTS about the target to the target's
supervisors.

- KNOCKING ON TARGET'S DOOR for silly reasons or "by
mistake".

- Frequent static on telephone lines.

- Endless WRONG NUMBER telephone calls to the target.

- Endless DISRUPTION of computer service, and sabotage
of the hardware and software.

- Frequent, almost daily BREAK-INS at home, work and
car when the target is absent.

- "Mind games" such as rearranging furniture and
belongings while the victim is away from home, car
and work.

- "Mind games" such as frequently dumping consumable
supplies and food.

- Tradesmen gang members show up late, do sloppy work,
overcharge, often damage OTHER items not originally
needing work. Example: Bell Tel worker who
wrapped his cabling around my computer cables at
work - in other words, a clearly deliberate act,
not simply incompetence.

Another example is chronic GROSS snow removal problems
at home and work, FAR beyond just sloppiness.

- AUTOMOBILE sabotage, including scratched paint, broken
emblems and trim, stolen licence plates.

NOTE: Gangs are very careful to NOT do really dangerous
things like cutting brake lines. They are more likely
to incrementally drain oil or antifreeze, or put dirt
into the crankcase.

- (** WARNING: BIG topic - can soak up lots of time!)
Some gang stalking targets report that electronic attacks
on appliances occur. Others report that what seem to be
electronic attacks on the body, such as sleep disruption
at night and extreme fatigue daytime (especially at work.)

One device which is capable of these advanced electronic
attacks is the Russian "LIDA" machine, developed in the
1950s as an alternative to sedative drugs.

Top
==========================================================
GANG STALKING MEMBERS

Gang stalking members at the LOCAL level fall into several
main categories:

- Footsoldiers - citizens who have time and opportunity
to place a gang stalking target under surveillance and
to perform harassment "skits", sometimes referred to as
"street theater".

- People who have unavoidable access to the target, such
as co-workers and supermarket employees.

- Utility technicians, who can control the quality of
water, electric, telephone and TV service to the target.

- City workers, including somewhat surprisingly firemen,
who can set up construction projects to inconvenience
the target, and create unavoidable noise. (We don't
as yet have a clear idea why some firemen are so
consistently reported as gang members, but gang stalking
researcher David Lawson emphasizes their participation.)

- Police, who pretend they don't know anything about this
problem which is estimated to affect one in a hundred
North Americans, and who privately admitted to David
Lawson that this is a growing crime problem.

- Corrupt psychiatrists, who in some cases have made
absolutely bogus diagnoses of mental illness to silence
a target. I kwow of two cases where bogus diagnoses
of mental illness were used not only to silence two
women who discovered their husbands were molesting
their children, but ALSO had the women forced into
mental hospital.

- Corrupt courts, such as the courts who gave custody
of the children mentioned above to the PEDOPHILE
HUSBANDS.

As to member MOTIVES, David Lawson's book "Terrorist
Stalking in America" reports that many stalking gang
members have low self-esteem problems. Even though some
stalking gangs use some sort of social or political "cause"
to bring members together, the main motivation is the
respect of the other gang members. David Lawson states
that the "cause" is often a secondary issue that doesn't
get much attention.

By having city workers in the gangs, gang members get
a false sense they are doing really good and important
work.

Here are some quotes from the gang members themselves, as
reported to researcher David Lawson:

"We are a citizen's group that helps the police. We are
trying to alert people in the area about this person
[the target] before he gets to do what he did in the last
place he lived." [Eleanor White talking: The cause
stalking targets I know did not commit ANY offenses.]

"Who are we? We drive the ambulances that take you to
the emergency room. When your house is burning, we put
out the fire. We are security guards. We protect you
at night. YOU ONLY HAVE ELECTRICITY, PHONE AND CABLE
SERVICE BECAUSE OF US. We are janitors. We have the
KEYS. YOU DON'T WANT TO MESS WITH US."

Top
==========================================================
GANG STALKING AND THE POLICE

Here are some quotes from "Terrorist Stalking in America"
from police officers interviewed by author David Lawson:

"I also spoke with police officers from across the
country. They confirmed the existence of stalking groups
across the country. In general, they said that 'cause
stalking' is primarily a civil problem where the
plaintiff has to prove financial loss. They also said
that there are free speech and grass roots issues
involved. In fact, the police themselves are targets of
these groups. In small towns, the number of members in
these groups can easily exceed the number of police
officers. In general, the police will NOT talk about
stalking groups. One officer did say there is a storm
brewing as groups become larger and more numerous."

So the police provide COVER for the groups by saying their
destruction of lives is simply a free speech issue.


If any of this is happening to you - start documenting it. Buy a digital camera. Upload your evidence on the web. Do NOT let these corrupt, sick people stop you from having a life. We may not be able to beat them, but we can reverse the tables and turn around and hunt these perps down just like they do to all Patriots and activists.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND START TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON UNDER YOUR NOSE, AMERICANS. The real terrorists are nextdoor....

http://newswire.indymedia.org/fr/newswire/2004/08/807703.shtml

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/09/116621.php

Archives:

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/newswire/2004/05/803105.shtml

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/newswire/2004/07/805900.shtml

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/115326.php

http://newswire.indymedia.org/fr/newswire/2004/08/807703.shtml
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Illegal Alien Gangs: Tactics, Tradecraft, Etc.

by Duck Twacy Tuesday, Sep. 14, 2004 at 2:47 PM

Gangs and Illegal-Alien Gangs
Please see this Exceptional Page on Gangs in Los Angeles
Search the LA Times for articles about the infamous 18th Street Gang, LA.s largest gang, primarily composed of illegal aliens.


Gang-related killings put valley on edge. A story from the ASSOCIATED PRESS October 27, 1997.
Gang Information. An excellent resource page, although some of the links are "stale" or expired.
Tijuana's Elite Young Criminals.
Madison, Wisconsin's Gangs Page.
Gangs in Los Angeles County (California).
Gang Links.
A Selected Bibliography of Federal Government Publications (Auburn University).
Viet Gangs in Southern California. This is a rather learned study of Viet Gangs in Southern California, by a Vietnamese-American. This includes absolutely fascinating information into the psychological background of the Vietnamese character, considered as a causative factor in the development of a gangster subculture. A sample... "Nomadic Vietnamese armed robbery collectives are often remarkable for lack of remorse. Victims and commentators among the first wave refugee community frequently evince astonishment at the brutal behavior exhibited by gangs, noting culturally prohibited acts such as disrespect to the elderly, violence directed to pregnant mothers or infants, and sexual molestation of young females. Yet the criminals themselves feel such behavior is perfectly justified. Again, this feeling is rooted in the village mindset:
"For traditional Vietnamese the sense of limitation and enclosure was as much a part of individual life as the life of the nation...Hidden from sight behind their high hedges of bamboos, the villages stood like nuclei within their surrounding circle of rice fields. Within the villages as within the nation the amount of arable land was absolutely inelastic. The population of the village remained stable, and so to accumulate wealth meant to deprive the rest of the community of land, to fatten while one's neighbor starved. Vietnam is no longer a closed economic system, but the idea remains with the Vietnamese that great wealth is antisocial, not a sign of success but a sign of selfishness. [Emphasis added]. "
and now for some opinion...


19 - February - 1997
[ Roughly transcribed from notes taken during broadcast ]
WJLA-TV 7 (Washington DC) I-Team, a local-news special investigative team, reported on their 11:00 PM broadcast of 18 FEB 1997 that the region is suffering an "Illegal Alien Gang Invasion".

Youth gangs have been a rapidly increasing problem in local jurisdictions. Regional law-enforcement authorities have reported a surge in the numbers of local gangs. The number of youth gangs has reportedly risen to approximately 250 gangs throughout the entire Washington Metropolitan area, doubling the number of active gangs in the region over the last two years. Suburban youth-gangs in this region are largely ethnic, and often are composed exclusively of youths of specific former nationalities. Did I say "former nationalities"? Increasingly, say local police, these gangs and their leadership are illegal aliens.

Their goal? According to local authorities, "come to America, make money, go home a millionaire or die trying".

Federal undercover operations taped one young man of perhaps 20 years, who spoke very good if slang-riddled english, buying guns from the undercover officers, and paying with a fairly immense bag of drugs. This man and many others have been linked to a primarily-Salvadoran gang called "Mara Salvatrucha". Publicly-released details are sketchy, but it seems that there is a very well-established pipeline overland from El Salvador through Mexico to Los Angeles, and now the Mara Salvatruca or MS is establishing footholds in this area. One officer with the Arlington (Virginia) police department, Rick Rodriguez, was not pleased with this development. He indicated that these MS gangstas were an immense problem simply because they are not afraid of jail, are not afraid of dying, have no respect for their own lives or the lives of others, in fact, they just don't care.

Last October, Federal operations discovered a fairly large network of illegal-alien foreign gangsters attempting to trade illicitly for guns with food-stamps, drugs, and sex.

Local authorities are co-ordinating to investigate this problem.


------------------------- end facts, start opinion ---------------------
Whatever local authorities are doing, they're doing practically on their own. While recent changes to Federal Law added some 350 officers to the Border Patrol, the law failed to increase the number of agents assigned to operate within this country. While there is indeed an increased (yet clearly still ineffective) border-control effort, clearly we need increased activity within the borders of this country in pursuit of these people. But who will pay for this? Clearly not the Federal government.
[ note: as of 20 February 1997, President Bill Clinton announced some $200 to $500 million should be devoted to combating youth-gangs.

Foreign gangsters penetrating to the suburbs of the National Capital and setting up internal organizational lines, operating undercover, and selling dope, sex and probably blackmail and terror to co-op any potential adversaries, all the while aggressively acquiring arms? this is simply intolerable. This should be viewed as a directed and aggressive armed insurgency.

Short takes of film broadcast during this segment convey the impression that these people have lots of money due to their activities, and are plowing that money into acquiring the necessary tools of an insurgency - late-model vehicles; semi-automatic and possibly automatic weapons; cash operating-resources; networks of allied or compromised disaffected "locals" (who may or may not be citizens; one may infer from statements within this report that individuals associated with these gangs speak very good english, and represent themselves as US citizens but cannot produce any documentation as proof, not even to the courts) who know the region, local residents and businesses well; and are almost certainly using the standard police-evading technologies already favored by the local "actually citizens" drug-dealers - aliased pagers, chip-altered and code-stolen cellular phones, and secure encrypted frequency-hopping telecom of the Sprint Spectrum type. All of this while in Washington DC itself, the government is on the verge of collapse and festers resentfully under "Federally-imposed oversight" and the police are limited to ancient analog communications if their cars have working radios at all. One can easily presume that these increasingly-organized and sophisticated armed alien gangsters have acquired scanners and constantly monitor police frequencies and forward anti-cop intelligence to their boys in the hood, via untraceable/untappable Sprint-type telecom. [ judging from the anti-sovereignity/pro-gangsta sentiments expressed by "Joe the Troll" see http://earthops.org/troll_aliases.html for a list of rapidly-changing aliases for archival-search strings) these guys may even have an Internet Propaganda wing. ]

It seems that these people are all young folks who (if from El Salavador, Honduras, or Nicaragua) grew up under conditions of ongoing civil war characterized by death-squad repressions, intrusive informants, active intrigues of intelligence and counter-intelligence, and are almost certainly familiar with military weapons, tactics and are indeed probably as experienced in small-scale war as were our own Vietnam Veterans when they were the same age. But these persons are not fighting for honor and country (we hope!) they are simply arming themselves in preparation for being an unstoppable force for social destruction in the form of increased gang violence, predictably extortions of local ethnic shopkeepers and smallholders perceived as compromised by their own ethnic, minority, or immigration status, and we will assuredly see floods of cheap potent poisons being distributed into ever-younger segments of the local schools. It is well understood that gangs aggressively recruit very young teenagers as they are after all almost totally immune to criminal prosecution except for murder, come and go almost unrestrictedly and unsupervisably in many cases and thus make ideal operatives.

To summarize briefly, "we got big problems here". In this matter if in no other, support your local police and any other agencies of resistance to this penetration and entrenchment in the suburbs of your Nation's Capital, by violent drug-dealing illegal-alien gangs.

[ If I am grossly overreacting, better too much too soon rather than too little too late. Call your local reps in government at all levels and raise hell. ]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 September 1997
Fairfax, Virginia - In this not-so-sleepy town roughly fifteen miles away from Washington, DC, local authorities have identified at least 22 youth-gangs operating in Fairfax County, of whichthe City of Fairfax is the county seat.

Based on reports from police officers stationed at the schools, monitoring of graffitti, and scrutiny of clothing for gang insignia, the Fairfax County authorities have created a database of some 1,000 individuals believed to be associated with, or known to be members of, local gangs.

While many of the "gangs" appear to be comparatively disorganized associations of local teenagers, the gangs are reportedly most popular among immigrant youths struggling to adjust to American society, according to Lt. Michael George, a supervisor of the gang unit. (As reported in the Washington Post, 20 Sept. 1997 - page C3.)

Across the river, on the other side of Washington, DC, lies Montgomery County, Maryland, which is reportedly home to a mere 18 known youth gangs. Exact numbers were not available for Prince George's County, Maryland, the other Maryland County bordering on the District.

It should be noted that while some of the "suburban" youth-gangs' members are indeed as violent or hardcore as some of their inner-city rivals, for the most part the crimes in which the youths are involved tend to be lower-key and less violent on the whole. The Post quotes one Dewey G. Cornell, head of the Virginia Youth Violence Project at the University of Virginia as saying, "People have an image of a gang member that's ... very extreme ... What they don't realize is that many of the gang members are 15 or 16 years old and they attend school. Although they are not hardened criminals, they are committing crimes. They can be found in all the school systems, all the detention centers and in all parts of the state."

Since 1993, only four homicides in Fairfax County have occurred which are considered definitively gang-related... but Fairfax is a one of Virginia's most affluent counties, located directly west of Washington, across the Potomac River. Authorities note that gangs are much more prevalent in the closer-in jurisdictions which lie to the east of Fairfax, among which are Alexandria and Arlington. Where Fairfax Couny is largely semi-rural, given over mostly to single-unit dwellings, the immense multiblocks of apartments closer to the river have long been a breeding-ground for crime, and have in recent years come to be largely occupied by immigrant families to the extent that American-born children of foreign-born parents arrive in school unable to speak any English at all. Such cultural enclaves breed estrangement and insularity, and when school children are suddenly thrust into a strange world of people whose ways are so different, many adapt by increasing their insularity, their cliquishness. It's not surprising that insular cliques should come into confrontation with other insular cliques, and this often leads to gang formation.

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shut your mouth if you don't know what you're talking about

by sharell Monday, Jan. 03, 2005 at 2:08 PM
sharell18@hotmail.com 0031615476607 Netherlands

I think you must shut up if you don't know where you're talking about. Thinks like gangstalking really happen, even here in Europe'. Some people even commit suicide because people like you (and the police) don't believe them. They try to run into me sometimes 4 times a day because I want to make a scandle about this, so shut up. You could be a victim as well soon, I hope so because I think you're stupid if you judge about thinks that never happen to you. They're trying to miss up our lives and they love to do it. They are very sick people and dangerous.
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FOR A PERMANENT TRANSCRIPT OF THESE POSTS, PLEASE GO TO THE FOLLOWING SITES:

by DavidVGoliath Wednesday, Jan. 26, 2005 at 6:38 PM
Liberty2@Canada.com

FOR A PERMANENT TRAN...
b2-1.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

FOR A PERMANENT TRANSCRIPT OF THESE POSTS, PLEASE GO TO THE FOLLOWING SITES:

http://www.freeshop.us/site/store.phpmem_id=1081

Also,

http://gangstalking.mywebhome.ca
(There are occaisional server outages on this site)

There is no telling how long these posts will remain on indymedia. Thankfully these have lasted long enough for the word to get out in an effective way. Although my harassment is continuing daily, the perps have had to relocate assets countless times, as well as continually change their tactics, due to my efforts which are continuing.

The permanent transcript will be in the form of a CD, which will include ALL of these posts, which I believe number about 11, and my daily photgraphic record, which I have been keeping for in excess of the last 6 months. Not something you're likely to find elsewhere!

God Bless, David

BTW, The attached photos are of a direct overflight by a B2 Bomber on New Year's Day. I called the SMC Public Affairs unit of the Air Force on this one! Their representative, MS. Tina Greer, provided an adequate explanation of why the aircraft was flying that day. (For the Rose Parade & The Rose Bowl) What wasn't provided was an adequate reason that this aircraft made a direct overflight of my self and my apartment building at the exact moment I arrived home from the gym, at extremely low altitude, which was appx 2pm, within 2 or 3 minutes. I live in the Hollywood area of Los Angeles; the Rose Bowl is in Pasadena, not an insignificant distance. Also, why overfly ME?

Also, can you believe that TOM RIDGE has just created the "FIRE CORPS." This is a NATIONAL booster organization for ALL Fire Departments. He also recently publically defended Chief's Bratton and Baca, and described both of them as men that know how to protect large cities. Why would he need to do this? Is it possible that my posts have been having an effect in spreading the truth? Could I possibly be this important? It appears THEY think so... I assure you, I am not. They're idiots. All it would have taken was a simple Mr. Golaith, can you do us a favor, and I would have kissed their feet in gratitude. They would rather do this instead... So, who's the villain???

Yes, I'm SELLING these posts, and my own personal photographic records of almost a year, FOR $19.95, plus shipping. Thes will be explicit photographic records, of what is described in TERRORIST STALKING IN AMERICA . Will I get rich? Doubtful. What I can assure you is that the majority of the funds I collect,will go toward providing myself with 24 hour security. Frankly nothing short of a team of 4 US MARSHALLS and an ENG crew,will be likely to return my life to normal. I 'm not holding out a lot of hope! If, by some miracle, I were to succeed in this venture, I can guarantee you that I will spend any funds leftover from my own protection to eliminate vigilantism in the US..... PERIOD!!@.

LE NEEDS TO FIND ANOTHER WAY RIGHT NOW!!! THIS IS NOT...OK!!@!.
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!! too obvious !!

by 11 22 Sunday, Jun. 05, 2005 at 7:42 AM
N/A

I just want to say thanks to Dick Twacy and DavidVGoliath.. and my bro for even showing me this site. These people are non stop with me.. I also want to say that Jack in the Box plays a big role in the help of these people. I always notice them around me, non stop.. day and night. Haven't recorded any liscence plates as of yet. But did have a very scary night with the Mexican Cartel, my boyfriend and I. Which all stemmed from an apartment complex, to being completely followed to a Jack in the Box. Also Mexicans everywhere!! A white van... with a guy waiting inside. Two mexican guys carrying side bags, messing with telephone communication..... same cars, being followed that night and having random people talking to us everywhere. It's scary shit.
I don't know there means for targeting, but I will find out.
effff bush!
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GangStalking Dallas Fort Worth Area

by Provocative1 Sunday, Jun. 05, 2005 at 12:43 PM
Oldhipchick1@yahoo.com exposing the stalkers Dallas Fort Worth Area

GangStalking Dallas ...
karens_the_bedford_tx.police_rat_informants_car.jpg, image/jpeg, 715x394

See this website of mine:
COVERT OPERATIONS/GANGSTALKING
http://hometown.aol.com/sself999999999/index.html

many links and references, and photos
of Perps, their vehicles, their license plates
and Police Reports,Convictions, etc...
See the Decals of this Bedford Texas GangStalker
who is a Typical GangStalker, an Addict,
Her convictions include Criminal Mischief
and possession of an illegal weapon
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sure

by ME Monday, Jun. 20, 2005 at 8:18 PM
fuckthat@yahoo.com not a chance adfasdf asfdasfd asdwer

you all need some serious help, I mean all that I saw here is some photos of random cars with some stickers on them, wait let me guess since I have some of the same stickers I am part of this "conspiracy" right????? well boy oh boy do you need some help
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Gangstalking was born in LA

by Leia Sunday, Jul. 24, 2005 at 3:29 AM
leiaskywalker24@yahoo.com Florida

Gangstalking was bor...
spook_house.jpg, image/jpeg, 790x526

Gangstalking groups started in Los Angeles, ca. in 1987.. and was created initially by a psychopath, (I sugget to look into Psychopathy in the web) and if you really look into it you'll see that as complex as it sounds, psycho's enjoy toturing their victims, they don't kill until they have satisfy the ride the thrill that means torturing another human being, I've been harassed by a female psychopath, and I'm talking 1987, at the begining the stalkings were done by her, at close range, sometime in company of her girlfriend, as time pass, soon was clear that my neighbors got into this too, then my job, I know this bitch hire an investigator, to catch up with the places I went to work, since at the time I didn't have papers, I was terrified, and nobody was harassed under this fashion before, I only thought this was unbelievable, this woman would show in times that I didn't expected, she approach my neighbors and started a rumor about me, that i was a very bad person, at the time I just couldn't imagine what she could say, but pretty soon the psychopaths that you think only exist in Television movies, actually happens, and this woman was a psychopath in her own right., she did the stalkings at close range in a car making sure I saw her, she would either "burn tires" or play the horn, and would have an attitude( same you see in the "parasites" that stalked you at close range), I call them "rats", since she got help from the neighbors, she would get in their apartments and "spy" on me, with her I start experiencing "breakings" in my apartment , she also would make the neighbor "act", be my friend and then It would betray me, she did "street teather" in the Nursing home where I met her, and make people do the same "street teather" at my apartment building, her behavior was so "Bizarre", that at the begining I didn't understand what was happening, as time pass things started getting worse and worse, and I realized people believed her without even knowing me , people gave for granted what she said about me. She realized she discover and "Undiscover Territory", meaning aproaching neighbors lying to them and people just believed her, and she started manipulating them, getting people to do what she wants them to do without questions, time passed, and I move out of Los Angeles, after 6 months out of US, things started happening again (Lima, Peru) yeah it sounds sickening, but if you think, only a psychopath would harassed you to the end of the world!!!!thhis people are obsessive, hateful, total control or nothing, and when I came back after a year, she already had a team, paid for some institution(Department of Justice?)
I have to enfazise the fact that all the gangstalkings teams that are out there, they all have the same "attitude that this woman had with me, they all do the stalkings at close range, they all do the street teather (no street theater before the 90's) and aproaching neighbors to help with the harassments(never before 90's), this bitch did all of this, with her own evil ideas of torturing, intimidation, terrorizing, stalkings(remember psychos stalked) and that's number 1 in their list of torture tactics, by the time I moved to Orlando, Florida1993) and rent a little house, she form a gangstalking team base on "john Does" that happen to be in the neighborhood, there was a 15 year old boy (hispanic) that they initially recruit for this boy to open my door, and after 12 years this boy now is his 20's(27), and making a career as a criminal, he is still out there, I still see" him" yes after all of these years, the same team is doing the same harassment and stalkings, with the same fashion is already all over United States, make no mistake about one thing: This bitch create a program of torture and stalkings in the times when this teams didn't have technology weapons, and since she did the stalkings herself at the time nobody knew or heard about it, make me believed, (I did reasearch in the web about when gangstalkings teams started showing, and everything indicates, that these teams start spreading in the early 90's). Somehow, someway, this Psychopath found funding, since her "bright idea" of stalking and harassing an "undesirable person" worked, ( I moved to Peru) she got her "way" and the "Force" saw what she did, and did it to an unsuspected victim, another Hispanic woman that matches my profile, and if you pay attention, majority of "victims" are women that lives "along", that's where the "false criminal record" kicks in, this woman create a "character" of my persona, even make people to behave like her, do the things she did to me, (street theater), This woman enjoy all the attention and feedback she gets from people, she portray herself as a victim, and I think she proclaim herself as a founder, of an institution of evil, that of course she tried to mask herself like a good person, she is still single, she is 43 years old and she is a nurse, she does trips from Los Angeles CA to Jacksonville, Florida. I know there's a lot of money here that is coming from the goverment, my surveillance of course is 24/7, and the technology weapons that they used couldn't come from other place than the goverment. All I want to say is that after all these years of torture and stalkings, I finally found internet, and I figure out how she got thru with her program, is making money(big time) and the main thing that this bitch is a Psychopath, if anybody check the list of symptoms of a how to spot a psychopath, you'll see that the evidence is overwhelming, and I'm amazed that nobody has come with an answer of why this is happening and where is coming from, my answer is this: Is about power, control, and a profit. If you look close, -majority are women that live along (the preference are ethnic, small mean, housekeepers,nurses,etc)women that matches my profile(I'm a nurse aid), they like to say that the "target" is perverted person, a lesbian, and if it's a man they say he's a pedophile, a sex offender, and they do is after they picked a victim, they make a "budget" already plan to pay to the neighbors that is going to "host" with all their equipment, to train the new "rats"(john does") and pay for the rent of just about any place or house that they need, the people that do big money here are the "so called Agency" or "entities", they get a big cut, they present the "victim" as an "undesirable person" for the goverment to "aprove" the budget, (Weed and Seed program) and the money comes and comes, but after the 9/11 events, they present the "victims as "suspect terrorists" , and with the"Patriot Act" law the Agencies are having a blast with the abuse, and getting richer and richer, it's all about control, power, profit. I do believe this bitch has to do with the program, since I unmasked her not to long ago, there changes, no more stalkings at close range, since I'm trying to put her in the open with this, they realized no matter how much they tortured me with their technology weapons(microwaves, laser, Xrays, Gamma)I defy them, I'm not scare anymore, and now they are trying to destroy property, breaking things in my house, I told them that I'm going to bring their bitch down, I have to say that I've seen this woman in every single place i moved, she made sure I see her, everytime like she did in Los Angeles, I'm not changing, if I can get help in putting thhis bitch in the open exposing her, I think we could have a start here. In fighting these attrocities, I need support, if I just could put her name in the web, I'm sure she has a lot of victims in Los Angeles,Ca. If anybody is interest it in knowing more about this woman, contact me, she's been doing this for 18 years, still out there recruiting "rats", the rats have her signature on them. They behave like her. Her name is Kim Robinson, yes is a very common name, but I'm sure in Los Angeles there might be a lot of victims that don't know that this bitch is the mastermind of torture, harassment, stalking, intimidation and terrorism.
This bitch is a terrorist, and i know somehow, someway I'm going to get her, she knows her falling is unavoidable, I'm a witness, probably the only witness of what she's done to this nation.
She is the first female psychopath in history to be in command of an evil empire, that is going on all over United States, I called them "The Nazis of the 20th century" the silence holocaust.
Leia


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Gangstalking was born in LA

by Me Sunday, Jul. 31, 2005 at 11:52 PM
leiaskywalker24@yahoo.com

This is a new website that is offering "Rewards" for any information about "gangstalking" that would lead to a capture of "domestic terrorists" in our community.

http://www.stoporganizedstalking.com/

http://stophitechvigilanteassaults.org/
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Domestic terrorist are your next door neighbor..............

by Me Monday, Aug. 01, 2005 at 12:32 AM
leiaskywalker24@yahoo.com

Hi Duck twacy,
thanks for your website, just to let you know that another thing that is also helping (in my case is) is that, victims should put pictures of the "Spook house" too, since the neighbors do the stalking and cooperating with these criminals that makes them criminals too, and since their participation is very obvious, we all know which is the "spook house" in our neighborhood, I did publish it and believe me, it made me feel great!!!!!!!, since I got my digital camara, no more stakings at close range, the street theater has diminish and I can tell these people is really scare, I dare them to "come out" so I can take a close picture, but of course they won't,...........
Leia
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crazy though it may seem

by eric Thursday, Sep. 08, 2005 at 7:17 AM
eric@popgoeslethal.com

Crazy though this stuff may sound/seem, it really happens. I have no idea who these people are, or why they are surveilling people, but it really is happening.

I have been witness to it occuring to a friend, and while I didn't see all the crazy shit that he has experienced, I was there for enough of it to know it's real.
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Workplace Mobbing / Gang Stalking / Canada

by Gerry Duffett Sunday, Oct. 09, 2005 at 11:53 AM
gerryduffett47@yahoo.com 416-612-5689

Jan 11 2005

To Whom It May Concern.

Wow what an experience.
I was employed at Gal Power Systems in Mississauga to work on diesel generator systems.
I was working on a pair of 16 v 92 Detroit diesel generator sets at
4160 volt at a facility called the South West Regional Centre in
Chatham Ontario.
I was requested by the project manager Moe Gallick of the Ontario
Realty Corporation to supply and install some fuel system components
at an Ontario Provincial Police transmitter tower close by.
When I went there to do the work I saw that this was an old abandoned
site no longer in use.
I was let into the building and began work.
As I was working I noticed the building had a an unusual amount of rat poison or toxic
chemicals distributed inside the building.
No breathing equipment or protective clothing were supplied by either
my employer Gal Power Systems , The Ontario Realty Corporation or the
Ontario Provincial Police.
Mr Gallick did not spend very much time in the building.
I did not complete the work.
Shortly after this I had to seek medical attention within the Ministry
of Health and was off work for close to a year.
This was a deliberate act.
I almost died.
This act of incompetence was the end of a series of poisonings that
started a couple of years earlier when I was working at Harper Detroit
Diesel on a project at Mississauga Hydro , probably continued when I
was hired by Thomson Technology in British Columbia and almost ended
in my death at Gal Power Systems.
Talk about bad politics or a toxic work place.
That's kind of the ultimate.
Some people say there is no corruption here in Canada.
The harassment in my workplaces to date with snide and off colour comments about my
mental health are unbelievable and intolerable.
There is much more to the story.

Gerry Duffett
14-4218 Lawrence Ave E Box 218
Scarborough Ontario
Canada M1E4X9

Pager # 416-612-5689

gerryduffett@fastmail.ca
gerryduffett47@yahoo.com


Jan 11 2004

To Whom It Might Concern.

Here is a copy of a letter I sent to the Toronto Sun newspaper about an article that was published.This incident that happened to me is an odd health and safety issue.
Here is a situation where a union might have made a difference. I will be sending more letters to various groups in the up coming year.

Hi Mr Margolis.

I found your article about Edwin P. Wilson all too frightening and hits me personally way too close to home. I was working at Harper Detroit Diesel in Toronto and one of my co workers or somebody in my customer base or the competition started poisoning my food over a period of months.
I almost died.
I had worked in the diesel generator industry for twenty two years as a field service technician at a variety of dealers and distributors based mostly out of the Toronto area. In this position I worked in and around all types of generator set applications such as apartment buildings, schools, retail stores, hospitals, marine units, data centres, airports, telephone switching centres, or just about anywhere you would find a generator set.This position also took me into a lot of high security buildings or buildings that you don't need to know exist. Some of the customers I have dealt with include Metropolitan Toronto Police, the Ontario Provincial Police, the R.C.M.P., Bell Canada, Transport Canada, Navigation Canada, Public Works Canada, Department of National Defence, the Ontario Realty Corporation, Nexacor Realty, AT&T, Cantel, C.I.D.A., External Affairs, and many, many more. I did quite a bit of work on high security micro wave and fibre optics communication links all around North America. This is where this poisoning comes from. One person I worked 15 yrs with on these systems, who I had not seen in 4 yrs, called me at home one night in the middle of this series of poisonings, who I didn't even know had my home phone number and asked "aren't you dead yet". I wound up on the West Coast of Canada standing in a parking lot with what were suppose to be Chinese Nationals from F.E.T.A.C. being photographed by the R.C.M.P. as part of a smear campaign.The worst part of all of this is Gerry Duffett almost died, thats me. The next worst part of all of this, is this is my tax dollars paying these freaks. I wonder how many times a day this goes on. I still don't know who poisoned me. I was off work for almost one year. I can now 5 yrs later barely hold a full time job. The harassment in my work place is unbelievable as far as off colour and snide comments about my mental health. There is much more to the story. My pager # is 416-612-5689.

Thank you.

Gerry Duffett.
14-4218 Lawrence Ave E Box 218
Scarborough Ontario
Canada M1E4X9
gerryduffett@fastmail.ca
gerryduffett@canada.com
gerryduffett47@yahoo.com
P.S.
Just in the last couple of years a new fibre optics system was installed in Ontario to link all the power generation stations to one central control centre code named Ledcor.
Don't tell anybody you know that, somebody might try to kill you.










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eharrassment is real

by groovy Saturday, Feb. 04, 2006 at 4:43 PM

eharrassment needs to be destroyed asap !
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Gang Stalking has come to long Island,new york

by Detective pick-up Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2006 at 9:03 PM

GANG STALKING HAS MOVED INTO NEW YORK,
LONG ISLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thanks for your authentic evidence on gang stalking in L.A.
its all true!People are still not hip to whats happening.These are the work of extremist-cult like groups who breed hate and revenge to anyone they prey on.Also thanks to Dave Lawson who has helped educate the public.Terrorist Gang stalking in america is a great book,and all true.If we can educate our police,and especially the media and our politicians we can blow these clowns out of the water.Thank God,,for web sites like yours!Hopefully,,victims of gang stalking will not given in without a fight!
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Gang Stalking

by tom Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2006 at 9:21 PM

Corrupt police and firemen are involved at some levels and lend help in communications and tradecraft.

PLEASE READ THE ABOVE STATEMENT ATLEAST TWO TIMES!

write your congressman!

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Gangstalking in Jacksonville, Florida

by leia Wednesday, Mar. 01, 2006 at 2:12 PM
leiaskywalker24@yahoo.com

And her name is.......Kimberly A. Robinson, a Sociopath nurse from Los Angeles, California, a major perpetrator, this woman started in 1987, and she is still doing what she started 18 years ago, recruiting people, and in command of my harassment, if anybody know this woman, or her family, they are all involved in "gangstalking and harassment", be aware, and if you live in Los Angeles area, you may know San Fernando Valley, where I heard it's a chaos, with all of these "psychopaths teams" all over the Valley. I live in Julington Creek in Jacksonville, Florida and this woman is here. All I want to say is that, the more "targets" there is out there, the more we can prove what's going on, it's time that the "sheeps" , that are going quietly to their slow death", WAKE UP, the only way to get this in the Media is with "drastic measures", we all see that doing "picket', or trying to reach the Media is not working, the answer is : Organized ourselves in fighting back, the technology is not only available in this Nation, there's other Nations out there that also have it, I don't know English that well, but it might be "volunteers" that could write to the "Foreign Press" with evidence, of what is going on here. I can volunteer to put my name in that letter, if I get support. Just an idea. If anybody is interested. contact me. leia
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Stalkers in San Fernando Valley

by Stalked 2 years by neighbors Wednesday, Mar. 08, 2006 at 1:53 PM

I am a victim of these thugs the raiders as they are also known. In my neighborhood they even have a street sign in there yard that says raiders road on lev ave / Mercer st in pacoima california at a corner house on lev ave. These monsters use electronic survielence on me and my family. I know the names of a couple of these members one is named sergio aviles who works for holy cross medical center in mission hills california. They use electronic harrassment on people who they hate as a hate crime and spread horrible rumors about you, they are well organized in their tactics. I have been stalked for 2 years now..... But I have not let these jerks stop me,, I am continuing going to school and will get my education and one day I may be the person sending them to jail............I am studing law.......I just want to add that not to many people are aware of these goons running around our communities and they are tied into currupt cops and inteligence within the government... Let me add when I left to another state trying to get away from this harrassment thinking it was a local group of individuals doing this,,,,,,I was followed on the plane by two companys who wore t-shirts with logos of Navstar corp. and Haas corp.. funny because when I looked up these companies it only confirmed my worst fears that the governmet is involved in my stalking and electronic harrassment. It is hard to swallow that some americans would be willing to do this to someone...........God bless anyone who is living the same nightmare.............
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How to stop this! gangstalking

by detective pick-up Monday, Mar. 27, 2006 at 10:23 PM

The number of people discovering and reporting their electronic harassment and gangstalking is rising daily.

These victims' lives become completely disrupted, often causing physical and mental incapacitation, financial distress and alienation from friends and family.

These crimes are new to the law enforcement communities, mental health care workers and to the press as a whole.

They are committed by "vigilantes", individuals illegally gaining use of technologies through their employment, corporations conducting non-consensual tests on U.S. citizens while under contract with the U.S. government, as well as non-consensual testing and purposeful surveillance by various intelligence agencies of the U.S. government as allowed by Congress under the auspices of National Security.

The biggest problem is not about the ability to show anecdotal reports proving a pattern fitting these crimes. The problem is that too few people understand that these crimes are ongoing.

That is why we must inform them and urge that action be taken against criminals in use of these technologies and methods, and that testing on U.S. Citizens without their knowledge or consent MUST STOP, as it is an egregious violation of human and civil rights tantamount to torture.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call or write, or visit your congressman,legilsature or mayor,,goverment elected offical.This may be the most important thing you have ever done.
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Gang Stalking

by annonomous Saturday, Apr. 08, 2006 at 3:04 PM

Im not so sure that ignoring the stalkers is the correct defense.It may be a sign of weakness.If you are stalked in your vehicle,,and you look in your rear-view mirror and are followed by a demented extremist,try this:
PULL Over let him pass,then put on your brights and honk your horn.Make some noise.Alert people on the road that the idiots are up to there old tricks.This seems to work for me.Since they always have there lites on to intimidate,,and work in numbers which actually is a friggin mess.They hate being discovered,and since they are suppose to be covert operations,,honking your horn and putting on your brights,,messes with there operations,BIGTIME!
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Please provide Links to prove your Allegations!

by boatman Sunday, Jul. 02, 2006 at 7:23 AM

Please provide links to information to back up these allegations. Do you know that many fire departments often have sheepdipped fomer spooks in their ranks? Did you know a fire department in NY is under investigation by the FBI? Did you know that fire departments have more information on you than most cops do? I would say that Gang stalking is very real. I have been stalked online and at home for over 5 years. At the same time I have also proven to myself that I, at times, feel like I’m being persecuted in someway. It’s not fun at all. Time to watch a funny movie or do something different. I think that people involved in Gang Stalking (on both sides) have a psychological condition called the Persecution complex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_complex By involved I mean the people doing the stalking and the people being stalked. It is very hard for me to prove the information below as I don’t know how to. I’m hoping that someone with the know how could look into it. First of all these people are not invincible – Get a camera and take they picture. They will go away – shame them as they don’t know why they are doing what they are doing. They are mindless drones with jell-o brains who believe whatever their leader says – Fascist Christian, Neo Nazi, Mexican Mafia or otherwise. Since you are posting this online then they know who you are and are tracking you - online. For example if you being gang stalked and sign up to a catamarans (boat) forum with your real name and email address, guess what will happen? They either won’t reply to your questions or will reply but with something always derogatory. Many of these people are the same person who knows how to appear as many other people. There are marketing groups who hire people to go online and either bad mouth the competition or promote their product. The product can be a religion. These groups give them all the tools they need to create these alternative identities. Some of the them are highly regarded by normal forum members – look for any type of Mod Rules activity in a forum before you post. They are easy to spot as you’ll find them answering lots of questions. Many of the questions are so specific that most people can’t respond – its just too specific. Many times these questions are asked by flyby users or by users who only sign up to ask that question. Many of the other normal users will praise the stalker member(s). I would recommend using an anonymous proxy service – don’t use the free services who do think put ‘em up and is monitoring them? Not all of them are anonymous. It may cost you a little bit of money but it’s worth it. Next get a Yahoo or Hotmail account and only log in to the account via your proxy. They track by IP address as well as ‘gif’ images and JavaScript and of course cookies. So turn off all images and JavaScript when checking email. Clear your cookies and cache often. If you go to a site you suspect as dubious then when you are done visiting – clear the cookies and cache. Many sites used to gather information about you advertise on other good and popular sites and have tracking abilities. Many fascist/hackers know how to gain access to these log file. VERY IMPORTANT: Don’t call anyone about this using your home phone. If you need to contact someone using the phone, especially someone online then use a payphone. I’m sure there are other phone methods but I haven’t tried any. Again since you are posting this online then they know who you are and are tracking you. I feel very strongly that a famous domain registrar in Louisiana is involved. They've been providing tracking information because they have a vast array of websites they monitor on every topic under the sun, from cars, boat, to antiques and of course sex. They track which sites you visit and which forums visit. For example they’ll create a number of scientology and anti-scientology sites just to find out who likes what – get the picture. They play both sides of the fence. (I’m not a scientologist, this is just an example). Before they can determine that you are really you they will send you an email. This will come from someone who you don’t know or know very little about. They want your ip address so they can confirm that just posted that message about B-US-SSH etc… Again Jell-O brains. They analyze this "information" and create a psychological profile on you. If they consider you a threat they call out the g00ns. At this point you should be asking yourself “What do they consider a threat?” If you can think of what a fascist Christian would do then you’re getting close. (Think David Duke – the KKK idiot). I’m not saying all Christians are like this, as this has nothing to do with real Christianity etc… These people have been polarized by various religious and political leaders until their minds are Jell-O. I have determined the head people are more than likely in New Orlenes Lousisana, Toronto Canada, Chicago Illinois, Cleveland Ohio, Scottsdale Arizona, Las Vegas Nevada, and Florida (not certain as to which city). I have the names and addresses of four of these individuals. They are the K00ks – They are the g00ns – Many of them are Usenet political and religious know-it-all wannabees! They are trying to victimize you further by making you feel like you are being watched all the time say using the Google earth spy satellite with it’s hi-rez camera that can see through walls or that the NSA and CIA are watching use using the high-tech gadgets. They make you feel more hopeless because there is “nothing that you can do”. They try and make you feel as if they know who you are having sex with and in what position. That they are using “secret mind control machines” that you can purchase for $20.00 to read and re-program your mind – Oh myth busters please bust this myth ;) They put up sites about secret spy devices and other outlandish things to bring you closer to the edge of insanity - That they can see what you are watching on your computer monitor or that with the same mind control machines they know what you are thinking. That you are being watched all the time 24-7 and there is nothing you can do about – BULLSHIT! - It’s all a mind game. Again I would recommend anyone who feels they are being gang stalked to get a camera and start taking pictures or better yet video tape it. Post it on Google Video as trying to sell it as a DVD might discredit you - should others make money off of this? People I’ve found are more than likely to have this happen to is anyone involved in anti-war, alternative thought (alternative to some of the more fascist Christian thoughts) like Taoism or Buddhism. If you look through the UseNet listings under anyone of alt.religion.anyreligiongoeshere you’ll see them. I do believe that people are being gang stalked – I however don’t believe that there is nothing you can do and that it goes on for life. The people doing the stalking are not very intelligent, they just believe what they are told to believe. I’ll post more - maybe
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Gang stalking in Toronto

by GmB Friday, Jul. 28, 2006 at 8:07 PM

Hey there.

Don't know about the L.A. scene but we have it fully out here in Toronto. It's happening and getting the word out is really hard. I just found out that my six years of harassment is really this phenomenon. I found out that I am being watched, recorded, and my computer activity is being keylogged and monitored.

I started a site all about harassment and I am trying to help get the word out. I think it would be great if we could all network and perform some massive movements against these perps. It's happening now in most major cities and these people are playing for keeps. They want the targets to kill themselves, end up destitute or institutionalized. So it would be cool if we could all link in and get together and fight them together.

I am going to leave some links and articles, but it would be nice if we had a solid movement. There has to be more awareness and legit support groups run with ths support of legit organizations. The support group in toronto is run via the rape crisis center, but in L.A. you could link in with so many social movements. You could really put this cause on the map. Let's work together to get our cause heard.

GmB

Here are a few more links.

http://www.gangstalking.ca
http://www.rich-essence.com
http://www.eharassment.ca
http://www.catchcanada.ca
http://www.raven1.net
http://www.jbhfile.com/home.html
http://www.harassment101.com


here are some articles on the subject if you want to have a read.

http://sbindymedia.org/newswire/display/1278/index.php

http://www.communigate.co.uk/brad/piesnpeas/page1.phtml

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter78.htm

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/115326_comment.php#115836


http://www.catchcanada.org/GSarticle2.htm

http://magic-city-news.com/article_6147.shtml
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Starfishgirl

by Starfishgirl Friday, Aug. 04, 2006 at 3:36 PM
info@starfishgirl.org

Terrorist Gang Stalking

Gang stalking enjoys a long and sordid history. It was a part of the KKK’s infamous lynching campaign that lasted well into the the twentieth century, was called Jew Baiting prior to the Holocaust, was perfected by the East German secret police who were called the Stasi, was called "Rat F'ing" by the Nixon administration, and has also been known as Blacklisting, McCarthyism, The Red Scare, Cause Stalking, Stalking By Proxy, and The Politics of Personal Destruction.

People ranging from activists (democrat and republican) to whistle blowers to women who have dared to break up with abusive partners are being targeted. Terrorist Gang Stalking is a form of abuse designed to control, intimidate, and ultimately destroy.

Nobody is immune. Terrorist Gang Stalking is an equal opportunity form of torture. Because of it's covert nature Gang Stalking is well known among those who are targeted by it and those who practice it as America's "dirty little secret". In the United States those in power can't legally imprison or torture those who oppose them politically or who threaten to expose crime, greed and corruption.

But some people with power and money can have those they hate targeted for gang stalking until they commit suicide, are set up and jailed, become homeless, or are forced into prostitution. The point of gang stalking is to marginalize a person who has been labeled a threat by driving them to insanity, poverty, or suicide.

Experts estimate that one out of every 12 women will be stalked within her lifetime and one out of every 45 men will be stalked in his. If this epidemic is allowed to continue unabated, in ten years everyone in the United States will either be stalked or know someone who is being stalked.

Terrorist Gang Stalking is a tool employed by fascists who seek to quash freedom of speech along many other Constitutional rights. Please join us in the fight to expose and stop this insidious crime.

For more information go to: http://www.starfishgirl.org

please join our new yahoo group at:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Starfishgirl/



Our Motto's:

Never,never,never give up. ~ Winston Churchill

If you're going through hell, keep going. ~ Winston Churchill

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Best Post I have seen in a While

by Starfishgirl Friday, Aug. 04, 2006 at 3:42 PM
info@starfishgirl.org

YES!

Finally some truth and not an other load of Baloney.

Starfishgirl
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No Joke

by Robert Ransier Thursday, Sep. 07, 2006 at 8:30 PM

This subject is "No Joke"! I've experienced many of the same experiences.

"Paranoid", you bet!

"Schizophrenic", I don't thiink so.

Try being a "Target" for a day. You'll soon see, how irritating, insensitive, and ridiculous your smart A_ S
statement was!
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ms

by land of OZ Monday, Mar. 19, 2007 at 7:12 AM

They are in Kansas and Missouri as well. "BushCo Policy... If you aren't outraged, you haven't been paying attention"!!

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STOP BIO-PSYCHOTRONIC WEAPONS TORTURE BRAINMIND/BODY CONTROLANNIHILATION SLAVERY

by Anatolij Friday, Apr. 06, 2007 at 1:10 AM

STOP BIO-PSYCHOTRONIC WEAPONS TORTURE BRAINMIND/BODY CONTROLANNIHILATION SLAVERY ASSASSINATION!!! Dear Sir, Madam, “The Nuremberg Code (1947)”: http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/nuremberg/ “… the Nuremberg Code …”: http://www.nihtraining.com/ohsrsite/guidelines/nuremberg.html http://www.ushmm.org/research/doctors/Nuremberg_Code.htm http://www.ushmm.org/research/doctors/code_expl.htm http://www.aches-mc.org/nurm.htm http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/references/nurcode.htm --- --- “Istanbul Protocol”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Protocol --- --- “ "The Istanbul Protocol" The Manual on Effective Investigation and Documentation of Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment “: http://www.phrusa.org/research/istanbul_protocol/ http://www.harpweb.org.uk/external.php?url=http://www.phrusa.org/research/istanbul_protocol/&harpid=1339 --- --- “Istanbul Protocol The Manual on Effective Investigation and Documentation of Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment Psychological Evidence of Torture Torture A. General Considerations 1. Central Role of the Psychological Evaluation “: … “…Perpetrators often attempt to justify their acts of torture and ill-treatment by the need to gather information. Such conceptualizations obscure the purpose of torture and its intended consequences. One of the central aims of torture is to reduce the individual to a position of extreme helplessness and distress that can lead to a deterioration of cognitive, emotional and behavioral functions. Thus, torture can be a means of attacking the individual's fundamental modes of psychological and social functioning. …”: http://www.phrusa.org/research/istanbul_protocol/ispsych.html --- --- “Manual on the Effective Investigation and Documentationof Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatmentor Punishment (The Istanbul Protocol) Submitted to the: United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights August 9, 1999 “: http://www.phrusa.org/research/istanbul_protocol/ http://www.phrusa.org/research/istanbul_protocol/ist_prot.pdf http://www.ohchr.org/english/about/publications/docs/8rev1.pdf --- --- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1841100684/102-1595635-8050521?v=glance&n=283155 --- ---- “The Medical Documentation of Torture”: http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=1841100684 --- --- “Founded in 1985, the Medical Foundation for the Care of Victims of Torture provides care and rehabilitation to survivors of torture and other forms of organised violence. “: http://www.torturecare.org.uk/ http://www.torturecare.org.uk/about/134 --- --- United Nations General Assembly 29 November 1985 96th plenary meeting A/RES/40/34 : “ Declaration of Basic Principles of Justice for Victims of Crime and Abuse of Power”: http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/40/a40r034.htm --- --- United Nations General Assembly Distr.:General 22 February 2001 Resolution adopted by the General Assembly. A/RES/55/89 55/89. Torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. : Principles on the Effective Investigation and Documentation of Torture and Other Gruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. (4 December 2000) : http://www.un.org/Depts/dhl/resguide/r55.htm http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N00/564/73/PDF/N0056473.pdf?OpenElement --- --- “CONVENTION ON THE RIGHTS OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES” : … ARTICLE 10 - RIGHT TO LIFE States Parties reaffirm that every human being has the inherent right to life and shall take all necessary measures to ensure its effective enjoyment by persons with disabilities on an equal basis with others. … ARTICLE 15 - FREEDOM FROM TORTURE OR CRUEL, INHUMAN OR DEGRADING TREATMENT OR PUNISHMENT 1. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. In particular, no one shall be subjected without his or her free consent to medical or scientific experimentation. 2. States Parties shall take all effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent persons with disabilities on an equal basis with others from being subjected to torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. … ARTICLE 17 – PROTECTING THE INTEGRITY OF THE PERSON Every person with disabilities has a right to respect for his or her physical and mental integrity on an equal basis with others. … : http://www.un.org/disabilities/convention/conventionfull.shtml http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/enable/rights/convtexte.htm http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/enable/rights/ahc8adart.htm --- --- “International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights”: “Article 7 No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. In particular, no one shall be subjected without his free consent to medical or scientific experimentation.”: http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/ccpr.htm --- --- “Committee against Torture”: “Monitoring the prevention of torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment”: http://www.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cat/index.htm --- --- “Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment”: “Article 2 1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction. 2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political in stability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture. 3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture. “ …: http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/cat.htm Yours sincerely.
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Gang/Community Stalking

by Wanda Dablin Sunday, Jun. 03, 2007 at 7:30 PM
wanda.jameson@sbcglobal.net 310-357-5516 20856 Denker Avenue

Gang/Community Stalk...
neighborhood16_044.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

Me and my daughter have been gang stalked for six months now. I never knew such evil existed and right in my own backyard. Of course I hear they pick out single woman because they believe they are easy to manipilate - NOT. The statements in the previous article are facts. They travel in convoys with their high beams on at night and high beams & night lights on during the day to show they have arrived. They have caused almost four accidents and numerous set ups with my daughter in the car. These people are demented and need help. It's unbelievable to me that our law enforcement and government has allowed this to become an enormous problem. Don't they realize the longer they wait to take this trash out, these demented freaks will hit every family in America including theirs. They damage property, steal mail, block emails, bug your phones, house etc. All we have to do is open and close our door and you'd think the circus came to town. I am investigating and believe I am sitting right in the middle of the perp capitol of California. The day my daughter said to me "mommy don't give up, God won't let anything bad happen to us" is the day I decided I will not give up exposing this trash until the day I die, whether law enforcement wants to help me or not. Our kids and the kids in the trashmobiles do not need this to LOOK FORWARD TO IN THEIR FUTURE. HE'S WATCHING YOU!
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Gang/Community Stalking

by Wanda Dablin Sunday, Jun. 03, 2007 at 7:41 PM
wanda.jameson@sbcglobal.net 310-357-5516 20856 Denker Avenue

Gang/Community Stalk...
neighborhood16_136.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

Me and my daughter have been gang stalked for six months now. I never knew such evil existed and right in my own backyard. Of course I hear they pick out single woman because they believe they are easy to manipilate - NOT. The statements in the previous article are facts. They travel in convoys with their high beams on at night and high beams & night lights on during the day to show they have arrived. They have caused almost four accidents and numerous set ups with my daughter in the car. These people are demented and need help. It's unbelievable to me that our law enforcement and government has allowed this to become an enormous problem. Don't they realize the longer they wait to take this trash out, these demented freaks will hit every family in America including theirs. They damage property, steal mail, block emails, bug your phones, house etc. All we have to do is open and close our door and you'd think the circus came to town. I am investigating and believe I am sitting right in the middle of the perp capitol of California. The day my daughter said to me "mommy don't give up, God won't let anything bad happen to us" is the day I decided I will not give up exposing this trash until the day I die, whether law enforcement wants to help me or not. Our kids and the kids in the trashmobiles do not need this to LOOK FORWARD TO IN THEIR FUTURE. HE'S WATCHING YOU!
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Gangstalked in Mt. Washington

by Andy Nicastro Sunday, Aug. 26, 2007 at 10:42 AM
andynicastro@adelphia.net mt. washington, Los Angeles

Gangstalked in Mt. W...
modified_police_car.jpg, image/jpeg, 432x362

I've been gangstalked (group stalked, cause stalked, whatever..) now for almost six years....I live in the Mt. Washington are of Los Angeles...I'm a former Television / Documentary Producer, and recovering drug addict. I've been aware for many years that something very strange has been going on, and that there has been some "unknown" group of people harassing me. However, I was not able to express this to anyone with any level of credibilty due to my drug use. Now, however, I have close to a year of sobriety and the stalking continues. My partner is also now aware of the phenomenon of group stalking, as are my family and at least 15 of my friends...all of whom are extremely supportive. I've been documenting, photographically, cars and license plate numbers, and faces whenever possilbe. i'm keeping a detailed record of my encounters with these people...who seem to come from all walks of life and when approached, run the gamut of reactions from terrified to aggressive. All of the information, photos and license plate information I collect I am forwarding on to each of these people who are acting as my personal archivists should investigations into this matter ever be undertaken. (and thanks to web sources like this one..my list of credible, supportive "achivists" is growing weekly). For anyone dealing with this, if you don't already know, they utilize the FBI vehicle surveillance technique called "Floating Box Surveillance".....they'll pretty much always be on all sides of you when you're on the road, which makes documenting them REALLY easy. You'll note that when you make a show of writing down numbers, they'll try to keep their distance out of guilt, shame or fear.....and they'll then try to keep a car in front of you who's plate you've already gathered...OR they'll put a car in front of you with NO plate...or one with a new car dealer cardboard advertisement plate (often over an existing license plate, if you look closely you can see it's rippled a bit because it's not laying flat as it should be). here's some reading on the surveillance part: http://www.totse.com/en/politics/federal_bureau_of_investigation/166421.html here's a photo of a modified police car that swerved in front of me....it still had the "spotlights' inside the car (the ones where the sideview mirrors are)...no license plate, and the often present American Flag decal. At the next intersection, when I nicely said "I like your car...is it an old cop car?" the nice male driver invited me to "suck his dick, faggot".
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another photo...

by andy Nicastro Sunday, Aug. 26, 2007 at 10:54 AM
andynicastro@adelphia.net mt. washington, Los Angeles

another photo......
img_0345.jpg, image/jpeg, 1600x1200

another photo, yet another "no plate" vehicle. "Eagle Eye" construction company. HILARIOUS. Not much for subtlety, are they? Note the Jesus Fish.
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Fire Decals

by Dansum Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Ok I really don't really care to discuss the bigger issue but being a firefighter I will mention that it is incredibly easy to obtain a CSFA or any fire decal. Simply have a family member who is in the fire service or be a volunteer anywhere or simply have insurance through CSFA and you get those stickers, not very difficult. I know friends girls and guys who's father's are firemen and they have stickers on their personal vehicles along with the rest of their family.
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These sheeple alien like wnnabe important, brainwashed idiots are for real

by txrose Wednesday, Apr. 30, 2008 at 7:34 PM
txrose2020@gmail.com

I am living in the freakin twilight zone. This crap ( and I mean ALL AND THAN SOME) happens to me 24/7. I have soooooo much of this below scum behavior on video and pics , and I am cyberstalked as well. I feel like i am in some altered reality game show and they want me to be a sims.
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These sheeple alien like wnnabe important, brainwashed idiots are for real

by txrose Wednesday, Apr. 30, 2008 at 7:35 PM
txrose2020@gmail.com

I am living in the freakin twilight zone. This crap ( and I mean ALL AND THAN SOME) happens to me 24/7. I have soooooo much of this below scum behavior on video and pics , and I am cyberstalked as well. I feel like i am in some altered reality game show and they want me to be a sims.
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Metanoia is the opposite....

by J in SD Saturday, Aug. 23, 2008 at 7:32 AM

Metanoia is the opposite of paranoia, as in do you believe the whole world is benevolent and nobody would ever harm you, or join groups and intimidate others for their own sick pleasure or cowardly weakness?

A year ago I might have described his posts the same. I am now a Targeted Individual. Some neighborhood watch types must have fingered me as "undesirable" and it is amazing to, as others also describe, watch the circus roll in.

It was almost fun at first, I'm a man who loves a challenge, a game, and refuse to be intimidated- be it by one goon or a hundred, even if the law is part of it.

This defiance now appears to have accelerated their efforts as the more I know the more I'm telling people. They have turned up the dials on the DEW (the direct perps are military or contractors of, and have all the related toys)

If I am alive at the end of the year I will be surprised- and if they keep it up I will be very sick, and they may have sent replacements.

for their casualties.

Re: DEW: Metal shielding on the wall facing, was not effective, either on the beam itself or the TWS tracking. Am nearly done with 5 x 5 vacuum panel, hope this helps. Can you believe there is no DEW law?

I voted for Bush in 2004. Poetic justice, as even if he is not directly culpable in creating this moral majority snitch brigade, his faith based distribution of community funds fostered it. Really, the lower level perps aren't the criminal element they seem. Most don't know the level of actions taken on you, they are told you're "bad", follow orders, and live out their wannabe cop/secret agent fantasy.

They are still fascists and belong in 1930's germany.


Forgive me.
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try a tech

by Mr. Raging 'P'-word Saturday, Aug. 23, 2008 at 7:53 AM

It's too bad you can't get ahold of a traveling wave tube and find the source location.
A few dozen KW thrown at the source should cause a great deal of consternation.

do you have tech friends or can you get surpluss RF amplifying equipment?
Nuf said.
Also.
You need a capasitive cage, not a faraday cage as you can't achieve a perfect conductor, at virtual ground.
Conductors ( foil ) layered with insulation ( saran wrap, wax paper etc. ) a few layers thick should provide a good barrier to the high freq assults.
ELF is easier to detect, although the system discribed above will protect you from a *carrier* at high freq using ELF.
Good luck and cause some damage.
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Organizedmobbing.com

by TI Saturday, Sep. 04, 2010 at 5:20 PM

I have been a victim for many years. I am unsure how long. I have a website: http://www.organizedmobbing.com. The term gang stalking, organized mobbing, organized stalking, community mobbing/stalking or whatever you want to call it recently became part of my vocabulary. I hate that it is a part of my vocabulary. Like most TIs, I just want to live a life free of problems. Make no mistake, this activity isn't about something, 'you've' done, it is simply a criminal activity and that is all. It can be started from your employer who wants to establish a mental illness profile so not to pay for the discrimination and wrongful termination claims, it may be started from the community that impacts your employment. I am unsure. There has been little 'concrete' revelation related to this. Certainly the employer is involved.

On my website, I try to suggest and offer not just complaints to the relative few of us who experiences, very few, but I try to offer, honest, solutions. Honest. I think before I post attempting to eliminate mistakes of judgment. Once you except that this is happening, it is a matter of what now. That is if the person is a ‘true’ TI and not a perp posting.

I have watched a few videos labeled as ‘gang stalking’, suggestion, if it doesn’t show something truly questionable and it is showing nothing more than people in their cars, than don’t post it! It looks ridiculous and is doing more harm to what could turn into a movement that could happen for people later. Post things that truly add to the suspicion of the ‘targeting’. It is possible, but, video is hard. Be patient and vigilante. Carry camera with you everywhere and get one that works good at night. You also must put into context. You have to add comments not just video. As far as movement, one day it will happen, but many will die before it does.

I certainly have tried to reach out to TIs with no results. I will say, if an organization doesn't post an actual email or an actual time and place of a meeting, than don't waste your time with them. They are probably TIs turned perps or just gathering information on you for statistical purposes that aren't helping you any. A TI organization should have a regular meeting whether or not anyone shows up and will have time and address of meeting posted. Nothing to hide when things are known on you anyway, right? Word to the wise out there. There are TIs posing as perps. My website doesn't have contact information, I am a little slow with that, but it is coming
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I finally figured out who Goliath is...

by DavidVGoliath Wednesday, Jun. 08, 2011 at 7:59 AM

Robert Mueller III et al...

Other current perps include Ronald C. Ruecker; runs day to day ops...

And Daniel Lee Cloyd, Mr. COINTELPRO...

These tactic were designed to deal with political dissidents... I just got added to the list; and they were so happy to do it. LE is fucking garbage... Dont trust the ever...


Davis
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I finally figured out who Goliath is...

by DavidVGoliath Wednesday, Jun. 08, 2011 at 7:59 AM

Robert Mueller III et al...

Other current perps include Ronald C. Ruecker; runs day to day ops...

And Daniel Lee Cloyd, Mr. COINTELPRO...

These tactic were designed to deal with political dissidents... I just got added to the list; and they were so happy to do it. LE is fucking garbage... Dont trust the ever...


David
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I finally figured out who Goliath is...

by DavidVGoliath Wednesday, Jun. 08, 2011 at 8:04 AM

Robert Mueller III et al...

Other current perps include Ronald C. Ruecker; runs day to day ops...

And Daniel Lee Cloyd, Mr. COINTELPRO...

These tactic were designed to deal with political dissidents... I just got added to the list; and they were so happy to do it. LE is fucking garbage... Dont trust the ever...


David
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tammy g

by tammy g Sunday, Oct. 16, 2011 at 5:33 PM
tamragrl007@yahoo.com

I have photos of these people harassing me and my family for over 8 yrs.- will be posting a website with all the info. Please feel free to get in touch immediately if this harassment has ever happened to you. I almost died 2 times because of these people. 1 time almost drowned in a canal and another when a diesal truck hit me 4 times in the rear on aug 10 2011. @lease email me with your number asap there will be a lawsuit. Please I need your signatures. Tammy
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stalked 7 years in 3 states

by harassed Friday, Jul. 06, 2012 at 9:22 AM

There needs to legislation passed to stop police and fire orginized stalking This distroyed my life. The majority of the public think that these city employees are here to protect them witch makes it hard to exspose their tactics they use against the people they target. If we form a group that exsposes the tactics they use against people they have a vendetda against we can STOP this. If i exspliand the number of times over the seven years it would take 7 years and three states that i have been targeted. Some of the things they have done include.
RUN OFF THE ROAD
PHONE TAPPED
CRASHED INTO
STALKED
CONSTANT POLICE AND FIRE PRESENCE
CONSTANT POLICE AND FIRE SIRENS EVERY TIME I LEAVE THE HOUSE
FOLLOWED BY POLICE AND FIRE FAMILY AND FRIENDS
MOBBED
SLANDERD
This happens in every state. This is common practice by the people that are sworn to SERVE and PROTECT.
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stalked 7 years in 3 states

by harassed Friday, Jul. 06, 2012 at 9:22 AM

There needs to legislation passed to stop police and fire orginized stalking This distroyed my life. The majority of the public think that these city employees are here to protect them witch makes it hard to exspose their tactics they use against the people they target. If we form a group that exsposes the tactics they use against people they have a vendetda against we can STOP this. If i exspliand the number of times over the seven years it would take 7 years and three states that i have been targeted. Some of the things they have done include.
RUN OFF THE ROAD
PHONE TAPPED
CRASHED INTO
STALKED
CONSTANT POLICE AND FIRE PRESENCE
CONSTANT POLICE AND FIRE SIRENS EVERY TIME I LEAVE THE HOUSE
FOLLOWED BY POLICE AND FIRE FAMILY AND FRIENDS
MOBBED
SLANDERD
This happens in every state. This is common practice by the people that are sworn to SERVE and PROTECT.
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